Start With A Scratch Track, or Grid?

Being new to the DAW method of production, I'm wrestling with the most fundamental question: What foundation to begin from?

In the first case, i played and sang a scratch track, then added bass, new vocals, drums and piano. Getting the timings right was a huge effort.

Next i started with a MIDI file from Chordify which of course had all the exact measures. This time the hard part was playing into the grid with steady tempo! Of course i should note that I'm a completely amateur musician!

Is there an established common method of how to start?
 
Listen....what you're describing is not unusual for a beginning or very amateur musician who is at the same time trying to get used to recording.....but adding drums after you've already put down vocal and bass and guitar is not easy and can lead to the timing issues you had. There's no real right or wrong method......but maybe try to begin with a click track and work your way from there.

Mick
 
Thanks guys! Yeah, that pesky click track! My personal demon! I somehow must learn to use it!

I've posted before about my trouble using click. First of all, as I'm playing, i lose consciousness (awareness) of the darn clicking! It's almost like my brain trys to eminate the external noise!

Yes, putting in drums after the scratch track was....... Painfully hard.
 
If I were to do a vocal as first track, I would not use a metronome or click. I would visually follow the play cursor and hit the bars where needed. It's not distracting at all as visual input doesn't conflict with vocal output as much as a metronome/click's audio can.. and does.

This is my personal experience and may not apply to other's.
 
Whatever works for you as a click track...visual or audible....it's still important to have one. As for singing or playing and losing the click sound or wandering from it......I find that interesting. Don't take this as a knock....but if you're in a band playing live.....you need to take audible cues from the drums or other rhythm sources. If you're never gonna play live....fine....but it still might be worth your while to get used to audible temp signals.

Mick
 
I think in the long run, it pays off to record your song to the grid.

I have had songs that didn't fit into a grid easily. So, i pick them apart and find out what the time sig is that I'm feeling or why it doesn't fit a typical 4/4 time sig. Then I will change the way I play it so it works correctly. Sometimes, I'll stew on a song for days or weeks, until it finally falls into place. Then I'll practice it to a click track or drum track until I've got it down good enough to where I can record it.

Editing with a grid is so much easier than not and for that reason, learning to play to a click or metronome is essential. Another thought; just because you're locked into a click track doesn't mean you can't make the song move or feel. You can push the beat or lag behind it and move around it as needed to get more or less energy and make it less robotic.
 
If the click is giving you trouble, maybe toss in a loop of some percussion, even an egg shaker or something might be easier to follow, if not an actual drum track. But, lacking a drummer, if you're going to add VST drums later, you have to have something pretty regular [for it] to follow. Some will let you specify another track to follow, so you might be able to drift around a bit on the click, which is kind of natural, and get a solid bass down that the "drummer" can follow when you add that. But it doesn't work to be completely random.

Some DAWs let you edit the tempo track and even smooth out the changes in tempo so you can align to something recorded without a click, assuming it's still pretty regular. Then adding a VST percussion/drum track will be possible. But unless the song has "dramatic" tempo changes that are part of the song, working on playing to a click is a worthwhile skill, and will make recording a lot easier, and make you a better player/singer in the long run (IMHO).
 
If the click is giving you trouble, maybe toss in a loop of some percussion, even an egg shaker or something might be easier to follow, if not an actual drum track. But, lacking a drummer, if you're going to add VST drums later, you have to have something pretty regular [for it] to follow. Some will let you specify another track to follow, so you might be able to drift around a bit on the click, which is kind of natural, and get a solid bass down that the "drummer" can follow when you add that. But it doesn't work to be completely random.

Some DAWs let you edit the tempo track and even smooth out the changes in tempo so you can align to something recorded without a click, assuming it's still pretty regular. Then adding a VST percussion/drum track will be possible. But unless the song has "dramatic" tempo changes that are part of the song, working on playing to a click is a worthwhile skill, and will make recording a lot easier, and make you a better player/singer in the long run (IMHO).

Bingo!

I put down a simple steady 4/4 drum beat and used that - played pretty loud in the head phones - in place of the CLICK. I was easily able to sing it in on the grid. I was really happy! After a few takes, I ran Melodyne and adjusted the few minor timing misses. They were like half a beat wrong in a couple places.

This feels like real progress to be able to now add and edit right to the grid. Adding drum fills, other lead parts, should be easier. Now, I just need to learn how to use Logic in more detail. Oh, and learn to play guitar better, and oh, learn to play keyboard better, and oh, learn to sing better! But otherwise, all is good! I can't believe how much fun this is.
 
My favorite has been to start working through the drum track with a scratch vocal/guitar track alongside to keep track of where I'm at. Then I can add a bass track, and work from there. Once the basic structure is there, I can kill of the scratch track and do a real vocal track.

I don't lock into a click track as well as a drum track. Most clicks just sound annoying to me, and either its too loud, or not loud enough to keep locked.
 
Is there an established common method of how to start?
Yes......but even established common method's have to be tuned to you and your workflow, with caveats. Mickster's comment
try to begin with a click track
is the gold standard to me. As I said elsewhere, the term 'click' to me could be an actual click, a metronome, a drum/percussion loop or 7 lions roaring in perfect synchronicity ~ as long as they provide a timing reference then you're good to go. From there it's down to the player to provide the life, direction and variety that will make the song worth a listen.

Naturally, learning to play with the click takes some practice because the click doesn't lie. You can tell the drummer they're dragging or speeding up ~ even when it's you that's the problem ~ but you can't win those arguments with the click ! But it's not really vastly different to learning to play with people that have their own internal sense of timing.

My basic philosophy on recording is that everyone should be able to record with a click ~ and everyone should be able to record without one. I don't use a DAW with a grid but where I haven't done the initial recording with a drummer or re-used a set of already recorded drum tracks from another song, I'll use a click even though my personal preference is to record with a drummer. And when I put together a series of drum tracks from other songs to make a new song {sometimes, talk about laborious ! It's always worth it in the end though}, there might be sections where there is to be no drums and there I need to use the click. I used to try to do those bits with my own internal timing but I discovered that no matter how solid my internal time clock is, it cannot compete with a robotic man-made piece of technology ! It just can't. It's like a tape recorder. Even if it's just a fraction of a micro-second, there will be a slight difference in timing each time you play it so what may be easy to capture today becomes a mystery of the ages when I try to play to it tomorrow. Even when I'm double or quad or triple or 9 ways tracking {handclaps ? :thumbs up:}, it often fascinates me to see how the beginning point of each phrase differs slightly. Not enough to be an issue, but there nonetheless.
A click doesn't do that !


One of the great things about home recording is that we can take tried and trusted methods from both pro and amateur recording practice and apply it to us as we see fit. I never used to do scratch tracks. For the most part, I still don't....yet I do in a way. Because in the absence of my drumming friends I'll build up a new song using old drum tracks from the many songs that have been recorded over the years, I need to hum or whistle some kind of guide track and often do a vocal rhythm too, if a friend is going to sing, just so they have an idea of how the melody and rhythm of the words go with the music.

I'll tell you, one happy day in my life is when I can delete the whistle or hum ! I hate it. Fortunately it never becomes so ingrained in my head that I will hear it forever more.
 
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