Singer songwriter mixing

(Acoustic guitar + vocalist here)
Apologies if it's been asked already. I know we're always told that a mix depends on the song you're playing and the vocals etc but as a busker myself in the past no matter what songs I played live it always sounded good (on the same EQ settings).
Why is recording so much different and Why do I find it so hard to record a simple acoustic + vocal track and making it sound professional or nice and crisp and wide without having it muddy and distorted. I acknowledge there are so many different ways to record and shape but surely there's a quick simple way to accomplish this

PS: THE 2000+ buttons in a DAW (I use studio one/little bit of ableton live) gives me fright and have no idea where to begin with plug-ins
 
I think it comes down to being something you hear over and over. With live sound, you accept a different standard. I remember my brother saying when playing live, make a mistake, keep going like it never happened, if the audience doesn't know it did, it didn't. That is live. Recorded, make a mistake and you can't keep from hearing it.

If it is just you and the acoustic, I would suggest, if two tracks, take some of the bottom out of your vocals (remove build up) and shape the acoustic down on the bottom area. In Ableton at this point, just focus on creating and arming a track. All the other buttons are for like looping and sound manipulation. You just need to record and insert some compression and EQ on each track, then blend it together on the master output (EQ and compression on the final sound, easy on the compression).

Focus on those areas and you can probably get a better sound. Put a little reverb on both to get it in a "room". Just enough to keep it from being dead. As soon as you can hear it, back it off a little. I think that will make it suit your taste better.
 
I think it comes down to being something you hear over and over. With live sound, you accept a different standard. I remember my brother saying when playing live, make a mistake, keep going like it never happened, if the audience doesn't know it did, it didn't. That is live. Recorded, make a mistake and you can't keep from hearing it.

If it is just you and the acoustic, I would suggest, if two tracks, take some of the bottom out of your vocals (remove build up) and shape the acoustic down on the bottom area. In Ableton at this point, just focus on creating and arming a track. All the other buttons are for like looping and sound manipulation. You just need to record and insert some compression and EQ on each track, then blend it together on the master output (EQ and compression on the final sound, easy on the compression).

Focus on those areas and you can probably get a better sound. Put a little reverb on both to get it in a "room". Just enough to keep it from being dead. As soon as you can hear it, back it off a little. I think that will make it suit your taste better.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure about this master output stuff. All I want is 2 tracks acoustic and vocals and for it to have studio quality like the music covers do. In terms of live music,I'm not worried about the mistakes because it can be edited, though I want the nice full roomy wide sound that live music gives but in a recording if that makes sense
 
"Studio quality' - what exactly do you mean by that? What gear are you using to record and mix? Is your recording/mixing space acoustically treated? Yes, you can achieve completely acceptable results in a home studio - but it takes work and experience.
Stop comparing recording to live performance - two very different things.
 
(Acoustic guitar + vocalist here)
Apologies if it's been asked already. I know we're always told that a mix depends on the song you're playing and the vocals etc but as a busker myself in the past no matter what songs I played live it always sounded good (on the same EQ settings).
Why is recording so much different and Why do I find it so hard to record a simple acoustic + vocal track and making it sound professional or nice and crisp and wide without having it muddy and distorted. I acknowledge there are so many different ways to record and shape but surely there's a quick simple way to accomplish this

PS: THE 2000+ buttons in a DAW (I use studio one/little bit of ableton live) gives me fright and have no idea where to begin with plug-ins
You don't need but about 3 things to do a singer-songwriter mix, and it starts with a good performance that is captured well, then some EQ, compression and reverb, IMO.

Yes, you can get away with a lot when performing live that simply will not get you very far in even a casual listen of a recorded performance. It's different, and requires more discipline. It can be nerve-wracking, but it can also expose weaknesses, so "keep swinging the hammer" as I've heard said (and repeated to myself).

Your setup can be a significant factor, so as [MENTION=39487]mjbphotos[/MENTION] asks, what is your gear and how are you recording? Do you have a recording to post for feedback? Etc.
 
"Studio quality' - what exactly do you mean by that? What gear are you using to record and mix? Is your recording/mixing space acoustically treated? Yes, you can achieve completely acceptable results in a home studio - but it takes work and experience.
Stop comparing recording to live performance - two very different things.

I started about a decade ago with a Line6 with ableton live, then Cubase with my Scarlett 2i2, then Studio one 3 with my Presonus audio box 96. Threw them all in the bin and now I'm up to Native instruments komplete audio 2 with (studio one 3 or ableton, haven't decided yet). Just want nice quality music such as this - Leonardo Decarli - COME MAI - YouTube

Compared to mine 883 - Come mai (Acoustic Cover) - YouTube

You can easily hear the difference. Be nice to just take the live performance setting and somehow throw it into a studio environment. I'm not asking for a huge lowdown on production, but just any hints that may take me in the right direction.
 
You don't need but about 3 things to do a singer-songwriter mix, and it starts with a good performance that is captured well, then some EQ, compression and reverb, IMO.

Yes, you can get away with a lot when performing live that simply will not get you very far in even a casual listen of a recorded performance. It's different, and requires more discipline. It can be nerve-wracking, but it can also expose weaknesses, so "keep swinging the hammer" as I've heard said (and repeated to myself).

Your setup can be a significant factor, so as [MENTION=39487]mjbphotos[/MENTION] asks, what is your gear and how are you recording? Do you have a recording to post for feedback? Etc.

I thought so too, tried every EQ combination, cut off the lows and did a shelf boost, compressed, boosted volume, Reverb (tried every combination there as well) but still can never get anywhere near studio quality.
This is an example of a cover I did (after mixing): 883 - Come mai (Acoustic Cover) - YouTube
And what I'm aiming for: Leonardo Decarli - COME MAI - YouTube
But I didn't add EQ, compressor or reverb to my master track as well as my mixing stage, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?
Food for thought
 
I started about a decade ago with a Line6 with ableton live, then Cubase with my Scarlett 2i2, then Studio one 3 with my Presonus audio box 96. Threw them all in the bin and now I'm up to Native instruments komplete audio 2 with (studio one 3 or ableton, haven't decided yet). Just want nice quality music such as this - Leonardo Decarli - COME MAI - YouTube

Compared to mine 883 - Come mai (Acoustic Cover) - YouTube

You can easily hear the difference. Be nice to just take the live performance setting and somehow throw it into a studio environment.

Yes, but they are two different environments and there is no "simple" and easy way to make the one sound like the other. It takes practice. It takes a minimum amount of knowledge, ability, equipment and environment.

At a minimum to get what you want you need a good sounding room, some high quality microphones and some idea of how to mix. We don't know what you have and we don't know what you know which makes it difficult to point you in the right direction.

Unfortunately there is no replacement for experience, no plugin or specific procedural magic that we can offer.
 
Yes, but they are two different environments and there is no "simple" and easy way to make the one sound like the other. It takes practice. It takes a minimum amount of knowledge, ability, equipment and environment.

At a minimum to get what you want you need a good sounding room, some high quality microphones and some idea of how to mix. We don't know what you have and we don't know what you know which makes it difficult to point you in the right direction.

Unfortunately there is no replacement for experience, no plugin or specific procedural magic that we can offer.

Understandable. My room isn't fully treated (it's pretty hard to make it so). I use a behringer C-1 condenser mic if that helps (heard some good reviews about it). I thought maybe there would be one simpler easier quicker way to make good sounding recordings since I'm only doing 1-2 tracks - nothing complicated (ie. plug in the guitar and mic and off you go). Sounds like I have a lot of experimenting ahead of me..
 
I thought so too, tried every EQ combination, cut off the lows and did a shelf boost, compressed, boosted volume, Reverb (tried every combination there as well) but still can never get anywhere near studio quality.
This is an example of a cover I did (after mixing): 883 - Come mai (Acoustic Cover) - YouTube
And what I'm aiming for: Leonardo Decarli - COME MAI - YouTube
But I didn't add EQ, compressor or reverb to my master track as well as my mixing stage, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?
Food for thought
So, not to put too fine a point on it, you are comparing your tracks to very good finger-style guitar and bass playing with a professional vocalist. Like I said, the performance is a lot of what is important, and then how well you capture it is next.

So, you strum the guitar with your thumb and play bass like a guitar player with not the best tempo, if I'm honest. This creates a less interesting foundation for your version of the song, and then the recording is not ideal. So, you have to get the foundation of the song solid, and I think it might be worthwhile to just record guitar and bass, in order, to a click track. Skip the video. Work on those two and track and re-track until they are solid and locked together and the quality is good. Get room treatment and work on mic position until the guitar sounds really good in the raw track. Lather, rinse, repeat... Post just the audio mix of the instrumental background for comments. When you've got that figured out, then start recording your vocal track. Same procedure.

Leave out the keyboard for now.
 
So, not to put too fine a point on it, you are comparing your tracks to very good finger-style guitar and bass playing with a professional vocalist. Like I said, the performance is a lot of what is important, and then how well you capture it is next.

So, you strum the guitar with your thumb and play bass like a guitar player with not the best tempo, if I'm honest. This creates a less interesting foundation for your version of the song, and then the recording is not ideal. So, you have to get the foundation of the song solid, and I think it might be worthwhile to just record guitar and bass, in order, to a click track. Skip the video. Work on those two and track and re-track until they are solid and locked together and the quality is good. Get room treatment and work on mic position until the guitar sounds really good in the raw track. Lather, rinse, repeat... Post just the audio mix of the instrumental background for comments. When you've got that figured out, then start recording your vocal track. Same procedure.

Leave out the keyboard for now.

Good plan. I suppose I have a high standard, for instance when I play live and I like it - I know my audience will like it. But if I record and I dont like it then I know the audience will most likely not like it lol
 
I thought so too, tried every EQ combination, cut off the lows and did a shelf boost, compressed, boosted volume, Reverb (tried every combination there as well) but still can never get anywhere near studio quality.
This is an example of a cover I did (after mixing): 883 - Come mai (Acoustic Cover) - YouTube
And what I'm aiming for: Leonardo Decarli - COME MAI - YouTube
But I didn't add EQ, compressor or reverb to my master track as well as my mixing stage, perhaps this is where I'm going wrong?
Food for thought

Right away I can hear your problem - your mics are picking up the sound of your room, and you are right - - no amount of EQ or plug-in reverb is going to fix that. Getting/making some simple 'bass traps' (4" thick rockwool panels) to set up as gobos in front/behind of you to absorb some reflections would be a big step forward. Too bad you didn't ask before continuing to 'upgrade' AIs, you are unlikely to hear much/any difference switching between AIs under $500, assuming decent preamps.
 
I would unplug your guitar and use a mic to record 1 or more takes. In order to maintain proper distance between guitar and mic, you'll have to discipline yourself to stop swaying about while playing. You can go back to swaying with the music while recording your vocal.
 
If you want 'studio quality', then you need to record with the same parameters under which the studio operates. Partly that has to do with what settings you use for various effects, partly to do with what knobs you twiddle, partly to do with what you are hearing and now you are hearing it, and partly to do with the acoustic properties of the room in which you record. And on top of that, the performance has to be right.

Which interface you use is probably the least critical part of the jigsaw. Any of Scarlet, Presonus or Komplete would do its job just fine. Likewise for the DAW you use.
 
Right away I can hear your problem - your mics are picking up the sound of your room, and you are right - - no amount of EQ or plug-in reverb is going to fix that. Getting/making some simple 'bass traps' (4" thick rockwool panels) to set up as gobos in front/behind of you to absorb some reflections would be a big step forward. Too bad you didn't ask before continuing to 'upgrade' AIs, you are unlikely to hear much/any difference switching between AIs under $500, assuming decent preamps.

You have good ears, I never would've thought about that being a big factor even when listening back through the headphones and always thought it was bad mic placement. Sometimes when I have the mic on with the plugins loaded, you can hear people talking in the kitchen which is in another part of the house - I'm guessing this is due to the room not being treated enough and the sound reflecting too much?

GUITAR RIG 6 PRO Walkthrough | Native Instruments - YouTube This is another example of what I'm aiming for - if you skip to 12:35 he adds a vocal chain to make her voice bigger and brighter. I was hoping there would be at least a 'simplified' way or cheat to get there. Indeed her raw performance is good, but I like the effects that bring it out.
 
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Boris, I watched a few of your videos, and the first thing I would point out is that it is VERY difficult to record an acoustic guitar and vocal with a single microphone and do justice to both sources. The second, as MJB pointed out, is that you have a LOT of reflected room sound. Looking at the video, you can see that the room has lots of reflective surfaces, so you need to minimize those, through both acoustic treatment, and microphone placement.

You can try a quick little test to understand how strong the reflected sound is. Set up your mic, get in your normal postion, and do a series of hand claps. You'll both hear the reflections and see them in the wave form in your DAW. After you get some absorption set up, repeat the test.

Once that is under control, try doing a closely mic'd acoustic guitar and find a natural sounding position. Now, if you want to record both things as once, you will need to get a second vocal mic. Otherwise, you can guitar and vocals separately.

As for equipment, I have listened to comparisons of different interfaces. They were minor compared to the changes you get from different microphones. The biggest variations that I hear in systems are the transducers... mics and speakers. Transducers have lots of physical properties that color the sound.

You might also look at some Youtube channels like Produce Like A Pro and look at sources like Sweetwater Sound's features.

Keep at it,
 
Boris, I watched a few of your videos, and the first thing I would point out is that it is VERY difficult to record an acoustic guitar and vocal with a single microphone and do justice to both sources. The second, as MJB pointed out, is that you have a LOT of reflected room sound. Looking at the video, you can see that the room has lots of reflective surfaces, so you need to minimize those, through both acoustic treatment, and microphone placement.

You can try a quick little test to understand how strong the reflected sound is. Set up your mic, get in your normal postion, and do a series of hand claps. You'll both hear the reflections and see them in the wave form in your DAW. After you get some absorption set up, repeat the test.

Once that is under control, try doing a closely mic'd acoustic guitar and find a natural sounding position. Now, if you want to record both things as once, you will need to get a second vocal mic. Otherwise, you can guitar and vocals separately.

As for equipment, I have listened to comparisons of different interfaces. They were minor compared to the changes you get from different microphones. The biggest variations that I hear in systems are the transducers... mics and speakers. Transducers have lots of physical properties that color the sound.

You might also look at some Youtube channels like Produce Like A Pro and look at sources like Sweetwater Sound's features.

Keep at it,

Hey thanks for the links. I have a few different mics, my older one is CM25 mic that I got with my scarlett 2i2 interface, then I got a Behringer C-1 because I thought it would be a level up (I also have a BM-800, an SM58 and a cheap pencil mic I got for guitar).

Judging by my feedback comments, it appears as though my biggest problem is my untreated room so I'm looking at getting some insulation and covering the walls. There's a wall right in front of the computer where I'm recording and one about 4 metres behind me, which one is more important in terms of reducing the reflections, or should I just cover everything?
 
What kind of 'insulation' are you looking at? You will do better, at this point, to make some acoustic traps (use rockwool or compressed fiberglass) that you can place in front of you (and behind you, if you can make/buy enough).
 
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