A question for the pros - Getting into sound engineering.

Apart from the purely technical training, something else you might get from the experience would be the side benefits of interacting on a daily basis with a bunch of people who live and breath music production. Are you getting that now? Will you get it from a book or the internet?

Do some comparison shopping. There might be competing programs to consider. Keep in mind that starting the program does not commit you to finish it. You can decide at any point along the line that it's not for you and bail. You're in a better position than most in that you can always return to what you're doing now.

I'm interested in Steen's perspective because he has done what you are considering doing. He said his current career direction is unconnected to his formal studies. But would he be moving in that direction if he had not done the studies?
 
Robus - yea this is a concern. There is a popular institute in London (where I live) called The London School of Sound. The difference with this is it seems to be aimed at more professional people. The learning curve might be a lot steeper.

https://www.londonschoolofsound.co.uk

If anyone has a minute perhaps they can have a look around the site at the courses and recommend me something. They have a one week mixing and mastering course but it doesn't encompass setting up a studio and stuff. It's pretty much all based in Logic.

Basically I want some studio experience where I can set up various bands/artists of differing genres and then mix the productions.

And you're right, I can literally jump back into my career without having lost any ground. The way the healthcare system works for employees in the UK is that I keep my same pay grade regardless where I go or if I leave. The only thing I would lose is the time. I might not be able to go back to the same work area but I can go to another, quite similar area or a completely different area and be on the same money. And while I go to college to do this I can still work and earn more or less the same money with less hours, but no sick or pension pay.

For example - https://www.londonschoolofsound.co.uk/courses/music-production-certificates

This is a part time course with a focus on setting up a studio and mixing. This might be beneficial? I could stay in work and it's much cheaper.
 
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I'm not sure how I'd get into it without some kind of professional or academic guidance...

Well...it's not easy, even harder these days, especially with all these audio course grads looking for work...but prior to just several years ago, before all these audio courses started popping up, and before colleges realized there was such an interest in this field...almost ALL studio guys learned by being the gopher, by being the guy that spends endless hours at the studio without pay, hanging around willing to learn and do anything and everything that is asked of him.

That's your competition...and why age does matter.
The young guys and gals are either still living at home, or they don't mind flopping on their buddy's couch or sharing a cheap apartment with three other guys...so they CAN spend 16 hours a day living in the studio environment...and the ones that also have some course under their belt + willing to put in all kinds of time and effort without pay or without much pay...are going to get those slots ahead of you.
That's a fact.

You're not going to have much of an edge with an audio course under your belt. So if you're looking for that to be some sort of guarantee...then you should reconsider. Otherwise, if you just want to do it...just to do it, for yourself, and if anything more comes out of it, it's gravy...then that's fine.
I just get the feeling that your asking for justification and you have an expectation.
Be prepared to be disappointed.

If audio is truly your passion...then approach it from that perspective alone.
Most of the guys here have sunk all kinds of time and effort...not to mention money...with no guaranteed expectations.
God how it pains me when I think of all the money I've sunk into my studio....granted, I've gone a bit more extreme with it than the typical home-rec guys...but the point is, it's all done for the passion, nothing more. I've got a day job that I jutst do because it pays (it's not my passion)...and that allows me to over-indulge my audio interests...and all day long all I think about is when I'm going to be back in my studio again.
 
Miroslav - What you are saying about younger candidates is true. But some courses, like the one I am looking at will place you in a studio, so all of that is irrelevant because they have studios who are affiliated with the course.

No, I have no expectations and I don't need justification from anyone. If I want to do it I'll do it. I know that I can fully support myself, go right back into my career, that I'll really enjoy it and that I can possibly grow it into a small business on the side. I'm asking for advice, there's a difference. I don't see how you've come to that conclusion at all.

I've said time and time again that I just want to do it for me, because it's my passion, so that I can have proper guidance so that I can get involved in recording artists on my own. I said that I will be going back to my job after the course. If I had expectations of some career, or that I'll be owed something why would I be expecting to go back to work?

I would of course like to have some kind of studio experience, but again, I stated that I expect that this will be hard because of my age and because of the nature of the industry and merely asked about this. So, no, I have no expectations about what I will achieve or end up working, just that I want to learn and if I am good enough at it, market myself so that I can start recording and mixing some tracks for some bands/artists.

I hope this clears this up for you. :)
 
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Well...when you said in your OP:

"would love to get paid to do it" ...and... "maybe build a business"

To me....those are expectations.
Maybe they are "quiet" expectations, since you do admit some concerns about the whole thing, but still, that is the twinkle in your eye.

Like I said, do it for yourself...and plan on nothing more.
Then if you can make something more out of it...it will be a happy surprise instead of expectations that faded away.
 
Well...when you said in your OP:

"would love to get paid to do it" ...and... "maybe build a business"

To me....those are expectations.
Maybe they are "quiet" expectations, since you do admit some concerns about the whole thing, but still, that is the twinkle in your eye.

Like I said, do it for yourself...and plan on nothing more.
Then if you can make something more out of it...it will be a happy surprise instead of expectations that faded away.

I have goals and dreams, but not expectations. I don't expect anything to happen, I may well just do it and make kickass mixes for myself and my friends, and that's it. But of course, I would love to make a career out of it, but I don't see that happening really, and besides promoting myself, unless an amazing opportunity arises I expect to stay in the same job that I'm in for the rest of my working life.

I expect to work hard at this if I take it on, to become decent at it. That's about the extent of it. If I can make a little bit of money from it that would be great, but I don't think I'll be able to leave my job or anything. I have no illusions and I feel that I've got modest goals.
 
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I once wanted to do a career in audio back in the early 80's. I was going to go to school, Full Sail advertised in Rolling Stone and I was all set to do it. But for various reasons I didn't. I have had a good career, met lots of people, traveled all over the world (the reluctant traveler), even met a few successful people in the music business (looked like a job to me and not a fun one either).

After seeing what I have seen in the music business, I am glad I didn't go this direction. I have full filled my dream with my little home hobby.

That being said, I never was idle, a soldier, line worker, paper pusher, calibration lab technician, computer programmer, IT program manger (big ass projects), now, I am not sure what I do, but I get paid for it ;)

Point is, if you want to do it, then do it. It might even be a wrong decision. So what, it will be just a part of your total life's work. To me, that is what it is about. The only people who fail in life are the people who fail to live. If you want to do it, then do it. It might work the way you planned, might not, but it will work out.
 
Good philosophy. To paraphrase a movie quote, All men die, but how many men have really lived.
(Something like that) :D
 
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Point is, if you want to do it, then do it. It might even be a wrong decision. So what, it will be just a part of your total life's work. To me, that is what it is about. The only people who fail in life are the people who fail to live. If you want to do it, then do it. It might work the way you planned, might not, but it will work out.

^This

Worst case is you're 35 and can pick up your nursing career where you left off because we'll always need nurses - but also there will be things unplanned, unseen, unknowable which will happen in that time which might send you off in another direction completely.

I "re-skilled" at 36 and entered a new profession at that age at absolute ground level - nothing to do with music, mind you - best thing that ever happened to me. And as Mickster says, regret is a bitch. Do it. One way or the other, your life will work out. There is time.
 
Do a cost/benefit analysis.

How much does the schooling cost? Will you ever be able to recoup the tuition using the skills you will be taught? Be sure to factor in your salary that you are giving up to go to school in the cost of taking the course.

I now work in corporate AV, and I work with dozens of Full Sail graduates who have $30k in student debt and don't get a chance to do anything like what they wanted to do. They also don't seem to have much practical experience or knowledge that they can apply to anything.

(Mind you, I'm an old man that has been doing this for decades, so things that seem obvious to me, might not be as obvious to many other people)
 
I now work in corporate AV, and I work with dozens of Full Sail graduates who have $30k in student debt and don't get a chance to do anything like what they wanted to do. They also don't seem to have much practical experience or knowledge that they can apply to anything.

It's like they went right to working on high end digital consoles without ever learning to coil a cord or troubleshoot a bad connection.
 
It's like they went right to working on high end digital consoles without ever learning to coil a cord or troubleshoot a bad connection.

This ^ is what bothers me. The "sound people" in studios/PA were "engineers" in the truest sense with a grounding in technology but had a great love of and flair for music. Most could play piano at least to a high grade and read a score but could also tear into a mixer PSU if need be or knock up specialist cables and boxes for one-off jobs.

I read all the time in forums of bods that have the passion for making music and can run quite complex setups of hardware and DAW (beyond me!) but if "it" can't be bought or breaks of a wet Sunday night, they are buggered.

Dave.
 
DM60 - I doubt it would be a wrong decision for me because at the very least; I'll have done something I enjoy, and I'll be able to use it to enhance a my knowledge so I wouldn't see it as a waste.

Fairview - the cost wouldn't really bother me too much. I wouldn't be losing masses of salary as I'd earn a decent amount during term time and probably more outside of term time. I'm not really motivated by money and the loan is paid back from my wages in an affordable way. If I were able to record a band here and there I might be able to pay some of the fees off and contribute a chunk from my earnings as I study. I am possibly eligible for a grant for a portion of it too. But realistically I'm just gonna have to pay it off like everyone else; monthly from my wages for the next 4-5 years.

All that being said, I'm thinking about some of the part time courses I've seen. I could stay at work and just go 1-2 days a week for 6 months and still get a similar experience. The London School of Sound course has an option to cherry pick modules to make your own course up, so I've emailed them about whether the Music Production modules will have a fair amount of emphasis on real world instrument miking and mixing different scenarios. It's also fairly affordable.

If they do have all this stuff then I would opt for this option. But I'm going to go to a few open days and see what happens. I do believe that staying in work would be the best option, but also that a couple of years out wouldn't be a massive problem for me.
 
Learning which mic to point where shouldn't really take more than a week to learn.

Unless you are working in a giant studio, or doing live sound, there really is no need for a hardware mixer. That's one of the problems with some of the recording schools: the students know how to program the automation on an ssl, but don't understand how to fully utilize a Mackie 1604. It's like they are being trained to make buggy whips.

What you will essentially be paying for is the chance to spend time in a studio. That is the only part of the process that you can't read on a forum. It may be more cost effective to simply rent out a studio and have the house engineer show you stuff. (Or find a band that wants to record and help pay for the studio time in exchange for being able to hang out)

Being a successful engineer/producer is more about people skills and managing musicians than it is about knowing where to point the mic and how to apply eq and compression.
 
If you want an education that will help you succeed as a sound engineer then get a business degree or an electronics engineering degree.
 
Learning which mic to point where shouldn't really take more than a week to learn.

Unless you are working in a giant studio, or doing live sound, there really is no need for a hardware mixer. That's one of the problems with some of the recording schools: the students know how to program the automation on an ssl, but don't understand how to fully utilize a Mackie 1604. It's like they are being trained to make buggy whips.

What you will essentially be paying for is the chance to spend time in a studio. That is the only part of the process that you can't read on a forum. It may be more cost effective to simply rent out a studio and have the house engineer show you stuff. (Or find a band that wants to record and help pay for the studio time in exchange for being able to hang out)

Being a successful engineer/producer is more about people skills and managing musicians than it is about knowing where to point the mic and how to apply eq and compression.

I'm going to have a look at this course next week. It's studio time, mixing, miking all rolled into 3 weeks. Not a bad price at all. I'll see how I get on.

https://www.londonschoolofsound.co.uk/courses/sound-engineering-summer-course/
 
Thanks. Just for clarity, Mixsit sent me a link where someone else was asking a similar question but they were already in college, asking if they had made a big mistake due to the current state of studios and the industry.

That discussion certainly applies, and much of it has been re-posted here.

Are you looking for approval? Just do it. Like you said, you can make a living afterwards in nursing while trying to get established. That's basically what everyone here is already doing. Get in line. ;)
 
Sound engineering degrees are vanity degrees. It will have little bearing how good you are at the nuts and bolts of sound engineering, and in some cases will actually impede your success.

Full Sail
 
I am possibly eligible for a grant for a portion of it too.

I still don't think it's a great idea but, if you're leaving full time employment to do a full time course or can prove that you've been independent for at least three years, you shouldn't pay a penny.
Not many people come out of three years of education in profit, not having worked. :p

The forms don't tell you that. I can give you proper details via PM, if it's applicable to you.
 
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