A question for the pros - Getting into sound engineering.

Yea. Well I think that what I'm going to do is do this summer course, hopefully I'll learn a lot from it, and be able to take away some things that I've missed that will really help me out. If I like it, they have a mixing and mastering masterclass so I'll do that too.

Then, as I get more confident I think I'll start advertising for acts to record and mix for free. Maybe message a few and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice. It's much appreciated. I'll keep you updated on the course.
 
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Just as an aside. You are in better shape than I was back in the 80s. Went through a lot of what you're thinking about. Sat in a major studio (in a band) watching and learning, being a part. I now work for under $15 an hour in retail. I HAVE NO REGRETS.
If I die a poor man, I lived the dream I had. Now I write songs and make my living putting meat in the case for people to buy. Not so glamorous, but I did what I loved. Don't miss that.
 
I've just kind of fallen through life to be honest. I've just worked hard at whatever opportunities fell into my lap. A careers advisor in my early 20's suggested a degree in Nursing because I expressed an interest in community based work, and a desire to give to society rather than take, and I just kinda went, yea okay, sounds good, that'll do! And it turns out I'm fairly good at it, and it pays really well.

You do need to be compassionate and have a fair amount of empathy or it just won't work out, so it isn't just about hard work, you do need certain attributes, but I guess that's true for all roles.

If I can somehow get decent enough at this to get the confidence to start working with people who aren't me and my friends, even if it's only a few times a year, I'd feel like I was making progress, and this course is the first step towards that.

If you've given it a shot, you've got nothing to regret, if you don't, I guess all you've got are regrets.
 
Sounds exciting. I doubt you'll regret it. Have fun and learn about what you love. To me 31 seems pretty young in the rearview mirror.
 
PhilLondon said:
I understand. I do believe we will get placements in local recording studios, so that would be invaluable imo. I'm not necessarily looking for a job in a studio, like I said, I'd happily build up a portfolio and try and build a reputation locally after obtaining the qualification.
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The problem with this is that studios today charge $15-$25/ hr for recording and that includes the engineer. There is ablsolutely no money to be made. In the early 80s, I went to a Music College to be a Recording Engineer. Back then, Engineers were making $150/hr. Sometime during my time there, I switched to Music Business major because the chance of being one of those high price engineers were the same as going to hHollywood to become an actor.

Anyway, a few years later, I was about to go to an audio engineering school. It was around $12000. I spoke to a friend of mine who owned a rehearsal studio and he said I was crazy to waste that money. He told me to buy $10000 in equipment and learn on my own. Long story short, nothing panned out. There is no value in what you want to do. The music business is dead. Artists no longer need super high production values because low if, and low quality songs are now what people want to hear on their iPhone earbuds.

Stick with healthcare. Do what you enjoy on the weekend. Sorry, just a dose of reality. I wasted way too many years chasing that elusive dream that we share.
 
miroslav said:
Well...it's not easy, even harder these days, especially with all these audio course grads looking for work...but prior to just several years ago, before all these audio courses started popping up, and before colleges realized there was such an interest in this field...almost ALL studio guys learned by being the gopher, by being the guy that spends endless hours at the studio without pay, hanging around willing to learn and do anything and everything that is asked of him.

That's your competition...and why age does matter.
The young guys and gals are either still living at home, or they don't mind flopping on their buddy's couch or sharing a cheap apartment with three other guys...so they CAN spend 16 hours a day living in the studio environment...and the ones that also have some course under their belt + willing to put in all kinds of time and effort without pay or without much pay...are going to get those slots ahead of you.
That's a fact.

You're not going to have much of an edge with an audio course under your belt. So if you're looking for that to be some sort of guarantee...then you should reconsider. Otherwise, if you just want to do it...just to do it, for yourself, and if anything more comes out of it, it's gravy...then that's fine.
I just get the feeling that your asking for justification and you have an expectation.
Be prepared to be disappointed.

If audio is truly your passion...then approach it from that perspective alone.
Most of the guys here have sunk all kinds of time and effort...not to mention money...with no guaranteed expectations.
God how it pains me when I think of all the money I've sunk into my studio....granted, I've gone a bit more extreme with it than the typical home-rec guys...but the point is, it's all done for the passion, nothing more. I've got a day job that I jutst do because it pays (it's not my passion)...and that allows me to over-indulge my audio interests...and all day long all I think about is when I'm going to be back in my studio again.
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making a living at anything to do with music is a hard life, you almost have to give up everything else, unless you are a studio musician with a great resume and connections, then ask them what they did to get there. my personal story? I was a certified Aviation mechanic and a pretty experienced one. I was really tired of the day to day grind, working 12 hours a day 6 days a week. On spur of the moment I quit my job and walked into a local sound production company and asked for a job as a sound tech. (now by this time I had alot of experience with small rigs, bar bands, etc. I never had laid eyes on a pro rig. I told them I would work for free for a month (all the money I had saved up to live was for a month). and then if it did not work out we would part ways. I ended up being there for 8 years. I moved from grunt humping gear to monitors to finally FOH on the concert rig. but, and there are alot of buts. you dont make any real money unless you are hooked up with a "A" artist. hired guns make peanuts. as to the school, I will never knock any education, but until you are in the hot seat mixing for 40 thousand people, or your rig is down 15 mins before curtain call and the road manager is screaming at you, or doing a 16 mix monitor rig with everyone wanting something, that is what can't be taught. no matter what age you will have to pay your dues. I quit because I got tired of the road life. I make pretty good money on my day job, plus most things I do in the studio is for free, so I call the shots. I do it because I love it, not as a job. you can make a living at it, but at what cost? :D
 
Atkron205 said:
...until you are in the hot seat mixing for 40 thousand people, or your rig is down 15 mins before curtain call and the road manager is screaming at you, or doing a 16 mix monitor rig with everyone wanting something, that is what can't be taught.
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This. The most critical things really can't be taught in a classroom, they have to be learned under fire.
 
Atkron205 said:
yup, but all in all, I wouldnt take anything for it. cost me 2 marriages but hey, my drums are still around!:D
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Yup been there done that. :D


One can make a living running a studio without having a million plus dollar studio.

A meager living but it can be done.

In my eyes investing in gear is a better investment than education. The best education you can get is the real world trial by fire kind.

Get a space, get some gear and get to work.
I'm pretty sure you have some experience recording. I seem to remember some songs you posted in the clinic.


You need to be in a place with an abundance of musicians.

Get some brave souls and give them a block rate, or charge them a flat rate for x amount of songs. Do NOT record people for free because you are just getting started. It will backfire on you.

You want to create a buzz, and a reputation, but not a reputation of a guy that will work for free.

Charging a flat rate, you may lose a lot of money at first, because it might take some time to get good results. Go for a good product, not a good hourly wage.

But getting a good result that you and the artist are proud of WILL get you work.

As the buzz spreads, youll get more work, skill, confidence, etc. Then go to an hourly rate, or up your flate rat. .

Good people skills, knowing your room, gear, ect. will get you more work provided you have an abundant supply of musical talent to draw from.

Keep in mind there will be quite low of a income ceiling however, and be prepared to work 10 to 12 hour days, as well as having plenty of dry periods.

Above all good results are paramount. The musical community is a very small group, where word travels fast.

How much work you get depends on your results and how you work with people.

That's the optimistic side.:D


I got out of recording bands because I got sick of making 20 bucks an hour doing demos and not having time to do my own music anymore. When you're in the studio for long hours its tough to come back to work on your own music (for me anyway)

And even though I was booked a lot, 20 bucks an hour doesn't go a long way figuring you have two overheads to pay for. Residential and commercial.


Anyway those are just some ramblings from someone who's been there. At least in the minor leagues

:D
 
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I think that people are missing the point that I woildnt give up my career unless a solid opportunity to do so presented itself. Taking a sidestep for a couple of years was the intention. I would look for work in its many forms, but it would have to be an extraordinary offer to get me to completely change careers, I'm aware this would be rare. As I've said numerous times, the idea is to build something up if possible. I'm not a gambling man. I appreciate the well meant advice in any case.

So anyway, I went and had a look at the school yesterday. Pretty cool there.

It's a three week course and it consists of the first week recording instruments; miking, positioning, all that stuff. Ultimately it will be a song performed by the students. What sound we want and how to get it. And operating the desk, using compressors, gain staging, signal flow and all that.

The second week involves mixing the song and preparing it for mastering, going through EQing, compression and effects. With some mastering involved too.

The third week is an optional week where I can use the recording facilities to practice. I've spoken to my old drummer and my pal who sings for me and we're gonna go record one of my songs.

Pretty sweet I think!
 
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Thing is...you can pretty much do all that in a home-rec studio, and after the three weeks are over, you'll still have a studio to keep doing it in. The whole point being (and what you will find out at the courses) is that recording is about trying stuff out and listening to the results. That's it in a nutshell.
The instructor is not going to tell you the one spot to put the mic, and then you move on...no..you need to really try all the spots and hear the results...and they're not going to have time to do that in a three week course.

Sure, there are finer points of recording that may not be initially self-evident, but when you are starting out, it's mostly all about "try this, try that" and then find out for yourself what happens. You won't even get to the finer points in three weeks.

I mean...if you have a decent job, you can cover the gear requirements, so I would focus more on setting up a more involved studio than taking 3 weeks of courses, because that Recording 101 shit, is all over the internet...for free.

But hey...some people like being in a classroom and being lectured to, rather than just experimenting on their own...
...plus you'll maybe make some new friends, etc...so enjoy it if that's what you really need to do.

Me...I've always been a trail-n-error guy. I really HATE sitting and listening to someone lecture about something that I can easily read in a book or on the interwebs. Plus, I get very little out of classroom settings. It's so much more rewarding to experiment, make mistakes, and figure out stuff on your own...'cuz then it really sinks in.

I did a short stint as a studio intern once...spent time sitting around watching them do stuff I already new how to do, and then the engineer one day is trying to explain to me that I need to go to the mic closet and bring back two of those "basket things with the rubber bands"...and I said, "You mean the shock-mounts?"...he said, "Oh, you know what I'm talking about".

I left shortly after that. :)
 
Yep, there's nothing a class can teach that you can't teach yourself. And those fine points are covered on forums, articles and the better video tutorials. A course in basic electronics would be more useful than one for sound engineering. If there's a particularly complicated piece of gear you have trouble with there's probably a seminar or class offered by the manufacturer.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
A course in basic electronics would be more useful than one for sound engineering.
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I agree.
Artsy audio/musician guys are often so clueless about the most electronics basic stuff...and in a studio environment, electronics comes up often.

You'll get more mileage just knowing how to do good soldering, and basic electronics do's/don'ts then you will learning about where to put the mic....but even basic electronics can be learned on your own.
 
miroslav said:
I agree.
Artsy audio/musician guys are often so clueless about the most electronics basic stuff...and in a studio environment, electronics comes up often.

You'll get more mileage just knowing how to do good soldering, and basic electronics do's/don'ts then you will learning about where to put the mic....but even basic electronics can be learned on your own.
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It would really have helped me early on to know why connecting a piezoelectric pickup directly to a mic preamp doesn't work. (I had a Fostex 450-8 which has TRS inputs simply paralleled with the XLR mic inputs.) It would have been nice to know about amp gain and the difference between line levels before using a console with -10 output to try to drive an amp with +4 input at a gig. On the other hand, those epic fails were lessons I've never forgotten.
 
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