Poor quality recordings

B

BorisMusic

Member
Hi all

I've been recording music covers for 7 years and still can't get it right, so I belong in the noob section. Simple acoustic and vocals through an Audiobox 96 through Studio one 3 (Scarlet CM-25 mic), previously used the Line 6 UX1 and Scarlet 2i2 (Ableton live & Cubase respectively) and my quality is equivalent of a potato or an old flip phone on everything I touch. How on earth do people get full professional studio quality on theirs so flawlessly, some even get better quality than original recordings off their phones. Can't afford to keep throwing money on new mics and interfaces. It shouldn't be that hard to get a decent guitar sound without any fancy work surely without having it sound thin/muffled or distorted. Any tips appreciated :)
 
I'm not a phone guy, so if you're how to make a good phone video of you playing and singing, you can just skip over the rest of this - I've got nothing...

The audio equipment (not your phone) you have should be able to record voice and guitar just fine. If it's not working, then you have to address the mechanics of mic placement, gain staging and room "contributions" that may be working against you achieving what you are hoping for.

I'd suggest you work on just the acoustic guitar recording part, and after another post you can attach an MP3 of your guitar track. Describe your setup precisely (mic distance/placement from guitar, room, etc.) and leave effects off and see if you get some feedback about improving just the tracking. Then when that's optimal, you can start trying out some effects, like EQ, compression, maybe reverb, to get the sound more finished.

Adding a vocal with a single mic is always a challenge, but the few times I've experimented with a single mic, I work on the guitar first and then make very small changes in its placement and my own orientation to get the vocal balanced. It's *far* easier to record guitar and voice with 2 mics, so I'd keep an eye out for a used *anything* almost to add to your recording setup. I keep 2 mics on stands so when I want to record a practice/scratch I just turn on the phantom power, open a new project from a template and click the red button.

Now, with all that, some folks are using phones, but TBH, the very best probably are not using the phone's built-in mic, but one that plugs in. And, of course, the very best usually have a lot more talent than I do (which we generally all agree is really the biggest factor in any engaging recording). I don't do phone mic recordings, but yes, they can sound decent, though it's going to take a good performance in a decent recording space with the signal-to-noise managed well by the combination of performer(s) and space, because those built-in mics are optimized for varying speech quality but at a relatively close distance. Phone videos suffer the same logistical problem that camera/camcorder videos do, and (my usual drum) that is that the best audio recording (i.e. mic) location is almost never the same as the video (camera) location. So, it's always a compromise. I see lots of good sounding videos which are too close to the subject (visually) and ones that capture the subject in the video well, but are overwhelmed by background noise (mic too far away). Personally, I don't think using a phone (unaugmented by a good mic) is a way to capture a really good video, but of course, it's fast, and often acceptable.

Sorry for the book.
 
Thanks for the reply guys. Yes electric acoustic - I've tried plugging guitar directly, and I've also tried positioning my condenser mic, i just record with one at a time (Tried both my Scarlet CM-25 and BM-800) in various angles and distances to the guitar, my levels are fine but I can't get the fullness of the guitar sound, not enough width, like it's too narrow. Mainly about 30cm away pointing at the 12th fret, which most experts will tell you to do. I'm guessing some people will have it in different positions depending on the sound they want, I just want a simple full sound that you find in most acoustic covers. Mine come out too distorted and muddy no matter where I place it. Could it be that 30cm is still too close?

I also got a cheap pencil-mic, one of those small ones they use for guitars, and my finishing product is just as bad. I've also seen a tutorial where the guy records with a $70 guitar and still got a great sound out of it. I wish i could post up a youtube link as an example but the forum won't let me
 
30cm should be fine. If you are playing very loudly, it might be close, and you could be clipping.

I don't aim the mic at the 12th fret - the guitar's sound comes from the top, so you want to capture that quality but without too much of the bass that creates that muddy sound. You might go out from the 12th fret but then angle the mic so it's aimed in the direction of the say the 15th fret or possibly higher if you use the pencil mic. The larger Scarlett mic will capture more of the bass of the guitar.

And, you can always experiment with moving the mic further away, or even putting it on the other side, so it's aiming directly towards the bridge area or behind it, though, again, I'd angle it so it's not capturing that full bass/air moving out of the soundhole area.

Just record and attach an un-normalized/no-FX output of the raw track. You should be able to do that with 5 posts I think.

Oh, and you can't really get a "wide" sound with a single, mono track. That's going to take at least adding some reverb that is output as stereo. If you have a second mic, e.g., set up for your voice, it's going to get a lot of guitar "bleed" and that will add some width. (I tend to just nudge my guitar/vocal tracks off center a little bit, like +5R for vocal -5L for guitar, and let the reverb on those create the width.)
 
Hey Keith, how do you mean output as stereo? Like in the Send rather than Insert? I usually do that, and when I do it and raise the send level up, the volume goes up as well as that reverb comes into effect.

And also, how do you upload sound on here? I have a quick guitar snippet I can share
 
BorisMusic said:
Hey Keith, how do you mean output as stereo? Like in the Send rather than Insert? I usually do that, and when I do it and raise the send level up, the volume goes up as well as that reverb comes into effect.

And also, how do you upload sound on here? I have a quick guitar snippet I can share
Click to expand...
Send, Insert? No, I mean just record the guitar track, make sure all effects are off or none applied, and then export/bounce/save your mono track as an MP3 and attach it to the post. I'm guessing this is the fastest way to get something here.

When you record into your DAW (software - whatever you're using, Reaper, Cubase, GarageBand, etc.), the track is actually stored as uncompressed, like .WAV format. Ideally, that's what I'd like to see, so if you know where the raw track is, you can upload that to Dropbox, Google Drive, wherever, and provide a link where it can be downloaded. That gives an exact "picture" of the level of the recorded track, so it's better, IMO, than an MP3 that you output from the DAW, because that might go through some processing that changes the track's level, making it hard to determine if the record level/gain settings are part of the problem, nevermind it's a "lossy" format, so it's handicapping us listeners when trying to tackle the first, recording steps. (MP3s are generally fine for mix evaluation, especially since that's the format the finished mix will likely be heard in!)

However you do it, don't include effects.
 
I uploaded it to a seperate site, hopefully it works for you. This guitar track was duplicated so there's 2, one panned left and right. No effects whatsoever, this is exactly as was recorded, you can hear how it's not capturing the full potential of the guitar. Mic was about 30cm in front aimed at about the 15th fret, however I have shifted the angle and it all sounded about the same if not worse (hence the reason I usually record in this position)

Vocaroo | Voice message

Also, this was exported as .WAV file, although the quality is not much different to how i hear it in my DAW. Resolution 24 bit, and Sample rate 44.1kHz

Now compare this to the guitar recorded here: Acoustic Guitar Recording 101
 
Hi Boris,
There's no advantage to duplicating and panning. Because the source material on each side is identical, the result is the same as just keeping one track panned centre and making it a little louder.

That aside, your acoustic sounds quite nice to me.
Sure, it's raw sounding (because it's raw?!), but it's not massively roomy sounding, or boomy, or harsh, or anything like that.

What are you using to monitor? Maybe your playback system doesn't sound good?

Edit: Just saw your update...
Comparing to what you've linked, the first and most obvious thing is that the linked clip is recorded stereo.
They guy has used to microphones simultaneously.

If that width and space is what you're missing you can set up with two microphones for the same result.

If you don't have two and want to try some alternatives, physically record your part twice (not copy/paste) then pan those apart.
It won't be a true stereo image but it'll give a similarish effect.
You might even want to move the mic between takes so one is micing closed to your left hand, and the other your right.

A final option is to keep your single track as you recorded it and use some stereo effects like a subtle delay or reverb.

Those are in order of preference, I guess.^
 
Hey Steenamaroo

I just followed the tutorials which said to pan left and right to make the sound fuller and roomier, but obviously that didn't work out for me. And thanks, but to me this sounds awful compared to most other covers/recordings that I've heard, too muffled.
I use big red headphones to hear everything as I'm recording plus playing back. SO basically I just turn up my monitor knob on my interface. It's not my playback, it's my recordings that are the problem.
 
Ok, Sounds like stereo image is what you're going after then.
Duplicating then wide panning is literally just the same as turning your track up, but those other three options will give you some true difference between left and right and make your recording sound much fuller/more spacious.

What you listen on is critical. Headphones, generally speaking, aren't ideal no matter how good they are, and cheap/no brand headphones are often hyped in the bass because 'that's cool' or whatever.
If your listening setup is less than ideal, the best you can do is constantly reference some well known (to you) professional recording.

It's not ideal but your question changes from 'How should this sound?' to 'How should this sound through my headphones'. ;)
 
In post 9. I think we were each adding more info to our posts and missed some bits. :P

A stereo image is created with the sound from the left speaker is not identical to the sound from the right speaker.
@ the forum - Let's not spark a debate about what is and what isn't true stereo, eh folks... ? ;)

If you have one microphone on your guitar and record that, that's a mono signal playing out your left and right speakers.
The signal is the same out each speaker so, to you, the sound appears to be in the centre.

If you recorded the piece twice, or with two microphones spaced apart (or whatever), then panned those recordings apart,
the left and right speaker would each produce subtly different versions of the same thing.

We interpret that as stereo width. It no longer sounds like everything is coming from the centre.

The two microphones option, depending how you place them, comes across as an accurate representation of what a person would have heard (two ears...see?).
The record-twice option doesn't have that quality, but still creates a width/difference/space in your recording.
 
Oh yeah I see what you mean. I recorded off just one mic, so that means I should leave it in the center then.

Also, yes I've listened to many professional recordings and I'm chasing that sound, which is the reason I'm here :)

These professional recordings sound good even on my phone (in which the speakers aren't even that good) so they must be doing something very right, I just can't seem to get it. I'm beginning to think my guitar is bringing down my entire track.
 
Boris.....I have to say I'm a little stumped as to why you feel your results are SO bad. What you posted is not terrible at all. It's a little "muffled"......possibly.......but not that much. It could use more "air" or top end in my opinion only.....or slightly different mic positioning.....but it could work as is too. I've heard FAR worse results. What brand of headphones (big red??) are you using to listen to your results? What speakers or monitors do you use? You seem to be saying that ALL your recordings are terrible..........which could be.........but it could just as easily be what you listen to them on.

As for a wider / fuller sound......what Steen and others have told you is the way to go. I don't think your guitar is the problem. It's true that more money can get you better guitar sounds.........but before you spend any.......let's figure out what specifically you don't like about your results.
 
BorisMusic said:
Oh yeah I see what you mean. I recorded off just one mic, so that means I should leave it in the center then.

Also, yes I've listened to many professional recordings and I'm chasing that sound, which is the reason I'm here :)

These professional recordings sound good even on my phone (in which the speakers aren't even that good) so they must be doing something very right. And I can't seem to get it, I'm beginning to think my guitar is bringing down my entire track.
Click to expand...

If I got a session and your acoustic take was one of the tracks in it, I wouldn't be binning it or sending it back to the drawing board. It sounds fine.

Do you have another microphone to hand?
If you don't, record a short piece of guitar two times. Make sure they're played exactly the same and the timing is good; Use a click or reference track.
When done, pan one hard left and the other hard right, and see how that sounds.

Its not a true stereo representation of the instrument, but it might give you a hint that you're moving in the right direction. ;)

It's particularly important, or obvious, when you try to add vocals to the mix.
With a single take of guitar panned centre, the guitar and vocal are in the same place potentially fighting each other to be heard.

With a stereo guitar recording, or some emulation, there's more space available in the middle for your vocal to sit, and be heard.
 
Hey Mickster, thanks but I really want that professional sound. I'm a bit greedy I know, just not happy with mine, it's just not full and spacious enough for me.

These are the headphones Professional Studio Monitor Headphones Mixing Recording DJ Semi Open DP Stage | eBay
Sorry I didn't know the exactly brand/type, but it looks like it's the DP STAGE DPS-351

I have them plugged in my Presonus Audiobox 96, monitoring through them, my output knob is at about 80%
 
Steenamaroo said:
It's particularly important, or obvious, when you try to add vocals to the mix.
With a single take of guitar panned centre, the guitar and vocal are in the same place potentially fighting each other to be heard.

With a stereo guitar recording, or some emulation, there's more space available in the middle for your vocal to sit, and be heard.
Click to expand...

Exactly. So wouldn't I need to then pan left and right (like i did) to avoid this fighting?

So in a map it would look like this

GUITAR LEFT - - VOICE IN MIDDLE - - GUITAR RIGHT
 
BorisMusic said:
Exactly. So wouldn't I need to then pan left and right (like i did) to avoid this fighting?

So in a map it would look like this

GUITAR LEFT - - VOICE IN MIDDLE - - GUITAR RIGHT
Click to expand...

The point, though, is that if you make one recording and duplicate that then pan left+right, it achieves nothing because the left+right guitar signals are literally, digitally, identical.
The result is exactly the same as leaving the original recording in the middle and turning it up, so it doesn't help.
It will still sound like a guitar in the middle.


If, however, you record your guitar with two microphones set up appropriately, you get two ever so slightly different recordings of the same performance.
When those two takes are panned left and right, we perceive the subtle differences as stereo image/width.

That's what, I think, you want to do.

The plan B suggestion was to record the guitar performance twice, if you only own one microphone, and pan those apart.
This will not give a true stereo representation, but it will give you a sense of width and space.

Neither is the same as duplicate/pan.
 
Steenamaroo said:
The point, though, is that if you make one recording and duplicate that then pan left+right, it achieves nothing because the left+right guitar signals are literally, digitally, identical.
The result is exactly the same as leaving it in the middle and turning it up, so it doesn't help you.
It will still sound like a guitar in the middle.


If, however you record your guitar with two microphones set up appropriately, you get two ever so slightly different recordings of the same performance.
When those two takes are panned left and right, we perceive the subtle differences as stereo image/width.

That's what, I think, you want to do.

The plan B suggestion was to record the guitar performance twice, if you only own one microphone, and pan those apart.
This will not give a true stereo representation, but it will give you a sense of width and space.

Neither is the same as duplicate/pan.
Click to expand...

Oh ok, yeah I have other mics too, including a small pencil-mic specifically for guitar recording. So you suggest I position them one to the left of the guitar and one to the right and then pan them that way?
 
BorisMusic said:
Oh ok, yeah I have other mics too, including a small pencil-mic specifically for guitar recording. So you suggest I position them one to the left of the guitar and one to the right and then pan them that way?
Click to expand...

Oh, great. Yes. Definitely give that a go.

For a quick test, set up one microphone pointing at 12th fret, say a foot away.
Now set the other up the same distance away and angle, but point at the bridge or thereabouts.

Set your gains so that both are kicking out roughly the same level and do a test recording.

Once done you should have two tracks in your daw; Both guitar, same take, sounding slightly different to each other.
Pan those hard L+R and see/hear what happens. ;)
 
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