How to implement a click track?

D

DesertRatt

Member
Trying to do my recordings by recording the guitar part separately from the singing part. But I think I need a click track. I’m using a Tascam 424. Do I literally record a metronome on one of the tracks? Or is there some other clever way I should be doing this?
 
I can think of may circumstances where it's a real bo0on to have a click, or in this case, just a metronome. Equally, if the guitar part starts first, then the singer joins in, there may be no need for one. The other example would be something like a song that has a sung phrase first, then everyone joins in. The singer might need a note in t he headphones to pitch to, then they kick off and the others join in. If it's a solo guitar not a problem, but how about the band all join in on the downbeat - bass, keys, drums and guitar maybe - how do they all hit it at the same time? - a click works well.

We produce loads of tracks that use clicks - and with a real click, you might have all kinds of guide clues, depending on the track. It's not uncommon for ours to have click AND a voice warning - so it might go Click Click Click Click TEMPO TWO(CLICK)----THREE(CLICK)-------------FOUR(CLICK) Then the clicks continue at the new tempo. Drummers have the worst job of course - everyone takes their timing from them, but they are following a click. Especially now many of the shows are timecoded with the lights and video locked to the click track tempo, and things like mute groups also following the timecode. The keys player might even have their patches being triggered for them too. Learning to play with a click is NOT easy, but a brilliant skill to master that puts you into a different box of employability.

Technically, with a four track the simplest thing is to record the click to a spare track, use it, then record the first instruments in - then you can lose the click track and re-use it. Any click will do. Of course, with most cleverer projects now computer based, the click can come from the machine, not a recorded real metronome. Doesn't matter really. When you're into clicks, what you need is a system you always follow. I hate playing to other people's clicks.

I suppose we should really differentiate between a click and metronome. If like your example, it's just for the first entrances, the click can stop once everyone is in, and maybe you can even re-use the track if another instrument comes in later. A true click is a beginning to end click that follows any tempo changes. A count in is something else really.
 
Thanks Rob!

Here's what I tried:

The song is "You Don't Know Me" - Ray Charles. 4/4 Tempo 67 Quite slow. Now, if I play this casually for fun, I have no trouble singing and playing, but it's not really ever in tempo - because I wander and go all ad hoc on it. BUT, now I want to record it for my little fun album I'm making for friends. And, now I want it ON TEMPO!

Well, I'm finding out how hard that is for amateurs like me!

I found a suitable "slow shuffle" with a prominent 1-Beat on the Alesis, and put that on track 1. Put my acoustic on 2, and my vocal on 3. So far, in about 15 takes, I've mucked it each time. Bottom line: I'm just discovering for the first time what it's like to have to follow the drummer! OUCH! Man, this is painful.

But, I am making progress. I can get through it with maybe 3 or 4 missed beats.

So, I guess the issue is no longer "click track" so much as it is "how to stay on tempo!"

Funny, but I've been singing and playing guitar for years casually in the house, and probably never realized how way-off-track and uneven my tempo is! I've been just winging it "free style."
 
The trend of following a metronome has come in and gone out of fashion. There's nothing wrong with having loose tempo if it's appropriate. However, it sounds like you're having problems playing to the click, and would have similar problems playing with a drummer, so it's really worth persevering with this because following others is pretty vital when you have to do it. There are lots of ways to do it, but tempo snags seem to always fall into a few types. Some folk can strum to a click on a guitar but slowly drift out, then notice and kind of lurch back in. Other people get out and don't notice at all, forcing the others to constantly go with them to prevent train wrecks. I believe the first can be fixed with hard work and practice, but the second can't - because to fix something you need to know when it's happening - and people in that category can't fix it because they can't feel it. Hopefully, as you know you went out, you can sort it!
 
DesertRatt said:
Thanks Rob!

Here's what I tried:

The song is "You Don't Know Me" - Ray Charles. 4/4 Tempo 67 Quite slow. Now, if I play this casually for fun, I have no trouble singing and playing, but it's not really ever in tempo - because I wander and go all ad hoc on it. BUT, now I want to record it for my little fun album I'm making for friends. And, now I want it ON TEMPO!

Well, I'm finding out how hard that is for amateurs like me!

I found a suitable "slow shuffle" with a prominent 1-Beat on the Alesis, and put that on track 1. Put my acoustic on 2, and my vocal on 3. So far, in about 15 takes, I've mucked it each time. Bottom line: I'm just discovering for the first time what it's like to have to follow the drummer! OUCH! Man, this is painful.

But, I am making progress. I can get through it with maybe 3 or 4 missed beats.

So, I guess the issue is no longer "click track" so much as it is "how to stay on tempo!"

Funny, but I've been singing and playing guitar for years casually in the house, and probably never realized how way-off-track and uneven my tempo is! I've been just winging it "free style."
Click to expand...

I have checked and most old recordings the tempo is all over the map anyway. It can vary from verse to chorus 10-15 bpm easily and usually speeds up as the song goes along. So I wouldn't get too enamored of getting the timing perfect, since it probably wasn't in the first place.
 
Gtoboy said:
I have checked and most old recordings the tempo is all over the map anyway. It can vary from verse to chorus 10-15 bpm easily and usually speeds up as the song goes along. So I wouldn't get too enamored of getting the timing perfect, since it probably wasn't in the first place.
Click to expand...

Amen. I gave up.

It was a REAL LEARNING opportunity though. I probably did over 2 dozen takes using the drum machine, and not once did I make it to the end without goofs. Also, I became so fixated on the rhythm timing, that my voice became lifeless and I was kind of "reciting" the words rather than singing them. I did improve by the end, but I could see it would take a whole level of practice that I wasn't prepared for.

It's one of those gaping chasms between being an amateur and being a pro, I suspect. I had fun. I think it was also made harder by the very slow tempo of 67. I tried ramping it up to about 76 then 80, and it was a bit easier but I still made mistakes.

Also, I believe my Alesis 16 drum machine is a bit like using an early 3-button LCD watch and trying to set daylight savings time. It is really clunky and so tedious to operate that I lost interest. Ergo, I might like to find a modern drum machine for any future fiddling with drum machines.
 
A good tip with slow tempos is to double them in your head, so in stead of 1,2,3,4, you do ONE 2 THREE 4 FIVE 7 SEVEN 8, which evens it out a bit. Tempos varying can be great for some songs, and a nightmare for others. I produce quite a lot of stage tracks, and I always start with the original song as a track in Cubase. Then I create a tempo map to make a metronome click follow the original track and some are amazingly wild - speeding up and slowing down all over the place. Don;t be afraid of this - the critical thing is you can follow a drummer! Sometimes they're awful at timekeeping too - but unless you can follow them, it's often you who look silly!
 
I struggle with slower tempos sometimes and my timing is generally pretty tight. Having the click at the right volume is important. If you have a weirder strum pattern on that slower tempo that is hard to time then I always program in my own click using just stabs on a piano following the rhythm of your strumming or use a drum sample. I also need a metronome to tell me when I am going to hit a breakdown if laying the rhytm guitar first, so I change the click just for a measure so I know I have a different set of chords coming up as I can't really be bothered to count 28measures or whatever before a change in song.

Playing to a metronome is so helpful, it makes it easy to splice in parts, or fake double your guitar parts etc. But it can sound robotic/sterile. That's the trade. I try to speed up the bpm 1 or 2 during chorus's etc on the clicks using automation. that really helps improve the feel of a song. If I think I can get away with it, I will NOT use the click. But most of my songs have programmed drums and I just don't want the headache of moving everything off grid.
 
There are beats dropped in both the guitar and vocal - the vocal comes in too early and sometimes the guitar seems to play an extra beat. What might be happening is that your timing issue is creeping into both the tracks and the singing tries to follow the guitar but actually moves the 'error' the wrong way.

I've a suggestion though, The problem I think is coming from that rhythm you are strumming. Have you tried it just as a straight 4/4 on the beat pattern to get the chord changes in the right place. As it is, you sometimes change the chord on different beats in the bar, which then makes it sound like a beat has got lost, when it was just a bit early on the change. The other thing is those stops. They're not really tempo changes, they're pauses, but then they come back in somewhat randomly - which is fine, if the vocal can follow them. This will bugger up the click, and while you can break the click, and resume - that's very hard to learn to do. Maybe for the moment, scrap the pauses, and try recording the song rigidly to the click or metronome. The triplet feel to the 4/4 is quite a hard thing to play if you are not used to this kind of thing. Maybe you're galloping, not even running before the walk is mastered?

With both the voice AND the guitar wandering all over the place, it's hard to decide which is right. Clearly they don't match, but I think on balance it's fixable, but you need to master playing that rhythm consistently and reliably so the voice has something to lock into. In some bars, the guitar plays too many downbeats so the vocals guess which one is the downbeat, and discover 2 beats later, it was wrong. Practice the chord changes in the 4/4 - one strum per beat, or at 1/8th notes with two strums per beat till you feel comfy. The rhythm is very hard to repeat over and over again. Keep going and report back.
 
rob aylestone said:
There are beats dropped in both the guitar and vocal - the vocal comes in too early and sometimes the guitar seems to play an extra beat. What might be happening is that your timing issue is creeping into both the tracks and the singing tries to follow the guitar but actually moves the 'error' the wrong way.

I've a suggestion though, The problem I think is coming from that rhythm you are strumming. Have you tried it just as a straight 4/4 on the beat pattern to get the chord changes in the right place. As it is, you sometimes change the chord on different beats in the bar, which then makes it sound like a beat has got lost, when it was just a bit early on the change. The other thing is those stops. They're not really tempo changes, they're pauses, but then they come back in somewhat randomly - which is fine, if the vocal can follow them. This will bugger up the click, and while you can break the click, and resume - that's very hard to learn to do. Maybe for the moment, scrap the pauses, and try recording the song rigidly to the click or metronome. The triplet feel to the 4/4 is quite a hard thing to play if you are not used to this kind of thing. Maybe you're galloping, not even running before the walk is mastered?

With both the voice AND the guitar wandering all over the place, it's hard to decide which is right. Clearly they don't match, but I think on balance it's fixable, but you need to master playing that rhythm consistently and reliably so the voice has something to lock into. In some bars, the guitar plays too many downbeats so the vocals guess which one is the downbeat, and discover 2 beats later, it was wrong. Practice the chord changes in the 4/4 - one strum per beat, or at 1/8th notes with two strums per beat till you feel comfy. The rhythm is very hard to repeat over and over again. Keep going and report back.
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Rob, I must thank you for taking the time to wade through that! I think I completely get your points. They all make sense, and I can hear them once pointed out like that.

My foray into trying to record songs is pretty new. I took up guitar about a year ago with the wife and for most of that time we just played casually from CHORD sheets we get online, so often the chords are not even typed over the right place! (or more commonly, there are no bar designations). Anyway, the few times I purchased sheet music, I could see the clear advantage of having the exactitude by bar.
That's one reason my strum is so sloppy. And, at 72 I'm getting a bit shakey.

I'm going to practice those points you made and see if I can improve that!
Cheers to you!
 
I always had pretty rock solid timing as a bassist and guitarist, probably better than most of the drummers I played with. Then I met the Zoom rhythm machine and realized that compared to it, I was like a blancmange balancing on a
iu
water bed
iu
on a bouncy castle
iu
bouncing on a trampoline.
As I was the only instrumentalist playing live at the time, I had to take a crash course in learning to play with a click/drum machine. And I soon learned that sterility is unnecessary but it does take effort to overcome. Naturally at first, one will concentrate so much on the click that both singing and natural expression suffers. But eventually, I learned to play with the click not to it. I learned to use it purely as a timing reference and can weave in and out of time, use what would be awkward strumming patterns {but which would be natural if I wasn't using a click}, hold back, push ahead etc.
My philosophy is that everyone that records should be able to record with a click......and without one.
 
I remember back in 2009 I did some sessions with a Zambian friend of mine who was an engineer and session drummer in Zambia. When we set up and I was showing him how the first song went, he asked me where the click was and I said "I never use them" and he was flabbergasted. He'd never done a recording session without one. But my logic was "you're a drummer. What do you need a click for ?" We did quite a few songs and his timing was immaculate. By the time he was back in town in 2012 and we did lots of songs, he wasn't asking about no click ! We had played together live and had no problem. I couldn't get why he needed a click.
Interestingly, by then I'd started using them if I was starting off a song on my own.
But even now when I record with a drummer, I never use them. If I've started the song there might be a click at the part where the drummer is to come in.
 
DesertRatt said:
Grim,

What was the Crash Course that taught you to play with click? Any tips?
Click to expand...


It was simply playing with the click. At first I was surprised that I had any problems playing with one. But it only took a few songs to get it down. If I was to offer one tip though, start with the click at a relatively slow tempo. That really forces discipline and listening and co-ordination.
 
Click tracks are useful for getting your timing down. Not the end all, but certainly will improve you timing overall if you practice with one, say once a week. And don't be surprised when it's hard to stay with the click, often it's not easy, especially at first. Keep at it, you will benefit from it.

As was mentioned above, songs do tend to float. At times you'll find if the song starts to get more intense the tempo will creep up a bit and then drop back down for the mellower parts, especially live. In the studio it's not uncommon for click tracks to be used. A drummer I've been with in a few sessions, will ask for a click in his headphones. Usually when there's a discussion going back and forth "it needs to be a bit quicker, or slow it down just bit".

To answer your original question. Your recording solo, so it wouldn't hurt to have a click to lay down initial takes. Run a drum machine into your recorder and record 4 mins of a closed high-hat hit at he speed you'd like. The high-hat hit is a bit more listener friendly then the click, at least for me. Or a bass drum sound, which ever your prefer. Record your guitar or guitar/vocals to your click. Once done and happy, come back and erase the click/high-hat. Now you have a base line to come back and overdub, or bring in someone to lay down a part on top of what you have already recorded.

If you don't have a drum machine, nor the funding at this time to get one. There are really low cost metronomes out there for under $30 with a headphone out. Run the headphone out into your recorder. You'll only have the "click" sound to work with, but it'll give you something to guide your timing.

Good job on the tune you posted.. That's a great song.
 
Audacity, as is often the case, lends a free hand?

Dave.
 

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My first foray into playing with a real click was also my first sight-reading event for years. I was supposedly in charge of a big theatre event, and the bass player's wife was taken into hospital at very short notice - as in half an hour before curtain up. The MD was having no luck funding a replacement at no notice, and in desperation, I kind of volunteered. I'd created loads of clicks and my bass playing reading had been not too shabby, er, ten years previously. The look on the band's faces when I, the pen-pushing manager in their eyes sat down at the bass desk was a picture. It was the hardest and scariest thing I'd done for a long time. I managed to get to the interval unscathed, and then again got to the end of the show. No idea of anything I had played, as each song seemed to finish and I just had time to turn the pad over. The click belting in my left ear and a monitor mix in the other, an MD staring at me and vague hand gestures for non-clicked things. The best thing was how the band's attitude to me changed so much. I've done it with the same guys twice more over perhaps ten years and I'm one of them now. It's a skill, like any other, and you can learn it quickly or slowly, but playing with clicks is damn useful! Especially if you can do it and competition can't!
 
DesertRatt said:
Also, I believe my Alesis 16 drum machine is a bit like using an early 3-button LCD watch and trying to set daylight savings time. It is really clunky and so tedious to operate that I lost interest. Ergo, I might like to find a modern drum machine for any future fiddling with drum machines.
Click to expand...

Don't give up just yet...I owned the SR-16....I never used a metronome because I couldn't play it in time...So I would put on a basic SR-16 drum pattern, play to it, & that would keep me in time...


I did my WHOLE first album using the Album on the beloved SR-16...It was one of the best investments I ever made.
 
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