How best to record multiple inputs to Boss-BR864 stand alone 8-track (2 inputs)?

[jimmiep]

Hi, newbie here!

I've got a BR-864 standalone 8-track recorder, which only allows 2 simultaneous tracks to be recorded through the following 3 inputs:

GUITAR/BASS: Nominal Input Level: -24 dBu // Input Impedance : 1 M ohm
MIC (Phone/XLR): Nominal Input Level: -44 dBu // Input Impedance : 8.9 k ohm
LINE: Nominal Input Level -16 dBu // Input Impedance : 15 k ohms

It has served me well recording on my own, building up track by track, however I'd like to be able to use it to record band practices, and want to capture:

1. Vocal
2. Guitar (Mic'd amp)
3. Bass (Mic'd amp or DI)
4. Drums (at least 2 overhead mics, ideally 4 mics (Bass Drum + Snare/Hihat + 2 overheads)

This means at least 5 inputs, ideally 7 inputs, into 2 tracks on the BR-864

What's the best way to go about this? What kit do I need (excluding mics)?

I have mics, but only one mic pre-amp (Joe Meek - not the best but works quite well for me)

Any advice gratefully received!

Thanks

 

[mjbphotos]

Record the instruments 'live' with 2 mics placed strategically in the room. Record, listen back, adjust mic positions and instrument volumes, then try again until you get a decent balance. Then track the vocal separately onto a new track.

Alternately, get a mixer with enough inputs, get your sound output from that balanced the same way (record, listen, adjust, record again).

 

[jimmiep]

Record the instruments 'live' with 2 mics placed strategically in the room. Record, listen back, adjust mic positions and instrument volumes, then try again until you get a decent balance. Then track the vocal separately onto a new track.

Alternately, get a mixer with enough inputs, get your sound output from that balanced the same way (record, listen, adjust, record again).

Thanks, it's the mixer approach I'd like to go down, any recommendations on a decent mixer (ideally less than £200) that's up to the job? Guess I need phantom power for all mics? would I need pre-amps for all mics or is there a mixer that will handle it?

 

[mdainsd]

Mixers just about universally have preamps for the mics in them. A good bunch have the phantom power either switchable in groups or independently.
I dont know much about your recorder but Im not sure its a match for what you want to do. Hopefully someone else with knowledge on it will chime in. I think you would be better served with a recorder that would take two of the same typ inputs (at least) and in this case be line inputs. Then a small portable mixer with 8 mic inputs and you would be golden!

 

[ecc83]

To be brutally honest with you Jim, I think you will have a pile of trouble trying to bolt a mixer on that recorder.

The line inputs have the unusual specification of an operating level(it seems!) down at -16dBu and I would expect this to result in some noise and probably overload problems. NOT what you want when "self balancing" a band!

In any event a 6 mic input (about the minimum) mixer is going to set you back the thick end of £200 and that is pretty low end Behringer Xenyx at that.

My advice would be to keep the wee multitracker for home doodling and buy a Tascam US1800 Audio Interface. The 1800 has been around a few years now and I have never read a bad word about it. There may be better 8mic input AIs about now for around £250 but I do not know of them.

I strongly suggest you download the user manual for the 1800 and check out a few reviews.

Dave.

 

[mjbphotos]

Mixers just about universally have preamps for the mics in them. A good bunch have the phantom power either switchable in groups or independently.
I dont know much about your recorder but Im not sure its a match for what you want to do. Hopefully someone else with knowledge on it will chime in. I think you would be better served with a recorder that would take two of the same typ inputs (at least) and in this case be line inputs. Then a small portable mixer with 8 mic inputs and you would be golden!

That's what he's talking about - the Boss has line inputs that would be fed by the mixer's line outs.

Go to your local music shop and see what they've got available for mixers, allmost any half-decent one will do for you in this situation (except - personal preference - don't go with the Behringer Xenyx mixers, I found the preamps too noisy). I have a Mackie ProFx mixer, the Allen and Heath Zed series ....

 

[mdainsd]

Yes. but the Boss doesnt seem to have two identical line inputs, mixed units so to speak. or am I missing something?

 

[jimmiep]

Yes. but the Boss doesnt seem to have two identical line inputs, mixed units so to speak. or am I missing something?

This would be correct.

I'm starting to agree with ecc83, I think I might sell up my BR864, (and a few records and bits) and get a Zoom R24 which has 8 inputs for simultaneous recording, and up to 6 with Phantom Power. Think this could be better than a dodgy noisy mixer into 2 unbalanced inputs, plus I'm then stuck with that mix.

hanks for your thoughts all - anyone had good experience with Zoom R24?

 

[Armistice]

No but do you plan on extending your recording past "band practice" - not to knock standalone recorders, but they're getting a bit dinosaury these days. If all you want to do is use if for that purpose, then knock yourself out, I'm sure it's a good machine, but you don't need 24 tracks. If you want to get into "real" recording, then I'd advise against a standalone machine, these days.

And I used one for well over a decade, so I know whereof what I speak. I'd be heading for interface / computer land..

 

[jimmiep]

No but do you plan on extending your recording past "band practice" - not to knock standalone recorders, but they're getting a bit dinosaury these days. If all you want to do is use if for that purpose, then knock yourself out, I'm sure it's a good machine, but you don't need 24 tracks. If you want to get into "real" recording, then I'd advise against a standalone machine, these days.

And I used one for well over a decade, so I know whereof what I speak. I'd be heading for interface / computer land..

Appreciate your point, thanks. I don't need 24 tracks that's true, but the 8 input / 6 phantom power is very appealing, and tempting at the price point.

I'm very used to working with standalone's, having had one since the Tascam cassette days (still got two tascam cassette four tracks - use them when I want some tape saturation sound, or just that scuzzy warmth - I know a bit of software on a computer could do that, but I enjoy the process), and I cherish simplicity in recording (too many options leads me to making bad mixing/EQ/Effects decisions!).

The cost of a new laptop/desktop machine & hardware, plus software (95% of the content which I'd be unlikely to use), added to the awkwardness of transporting it, leads me to want to stick to a standalone.... one day though I'm sure I'll change that

 

[ecc83]

Appreciate your point, thanks. I don't need 24 tracks that's true, but the 8 input / 6 phantom power is very appealing, and tempting at the price point.

I'm very used to working with standalone's, having had one since the Tascam cassette days (still got two tascam cassette four tracks - use them when I want some tape saturation sound, or just that scuzzy warmth - I know a bit of software on a computer could do that, but I enjoy the process), and I cherish simplicity in recording (too many options leads me to making bad mixing/EQ/Effects decisions!).

The cost of a new laptop/desktop machine & hardware, plus software (95% of the content which I'd be unlikely to use), added to the awkwardness of transporting it, leads me to want to stick to a standalone.... one day though I'm sure I'll change that

Well, you must do as you think best. I see the R24 at $500us and the US1800 at half that?

As for a new laptop? If what you have now is running Win7 it will surely run 8-12 tracks in a band recording situation where you don't need computer monitoring and so can have a big buffer to spare the CPU. Even if XP it would probably be OK. I had an HP lappy, 850MEG! processor, 512M ram and that would record two tracks at 24 bits/44.1kHz for as long as the puny 20G drive would permit. Extrapolate that to 10 tracks and you can see you don't need a Cyclone predictor!

Dave.

 

[jimmiep]

Well, you must do as you think best. I see the R24 at $500us and the US1800 at half that?

As for a new laptop? If what you have now is running Win7 it will surely run 8-12 tracks in a band recording situation where you don't need computer monitoring and so can have a big buffer to spare the CPU. Even if XP it would probably be OK. I had an HP lappy, 850MEG! processor, 512M ram and that would record two tracks at 24 bits/44.1kHz for as long as the puny 20G drive would permit. Extrapolate that to 10 tracks and you can see you don't need a Cyclone predictor!

Dave.

Thanks, interesting...!

Well.... I have an HP Pavillion laptop, running windows 8, has at least 2GB of Ram (might have 4GB, not sure), and 500GB harddive - would be able to handle it?

What hardware would I need to get to allow me to have 8 phantom powered mics all recording simultaneously?

What software would I need that doesn't break the bank? Garageband? I don't need anything in terms of features beyond being able to drop-in, bounce, EQ, add some reverb maybe, some compression?

 

[ecc83]

Thanks, interesting...!

Well.... I have an HP Pavillion laptop, running windows 8, has at least 2GB of Ram (might have 4GB, not sure), and 500GB harddive - would be able to handle it?

What hardware would I need to get to allow me to have 8 phantom powered mics all recording simultaneously?

What software would I need that doesn't break the bank? Garageband? I don't need anything in terms of features beyond being able to drop-in, bounce, EQ, add some reverb maybe, some compression?

You bin listening to me!!!?
Heh! Heh!

You need an interface with at least 6 spook juiced mic inputs and some line/DI ins as well. You have not mentioned MIDI but it is a very good thing to have.

The US 1800 gives you 8 mic pre amps and several more line/instrument ins and MIDI. As I said before, there MAY be a better value multitrack AI around now but I am not aware.

Since you ask about "hardware" I am going to be a bit snotty and say, "you will need mics, mic stands and XLR cables plus a few jack to jack jobbies..!"
We have not touched on monitoring? A decent set of closed back headphone will see you through for tracking. Monitoring for mixing later is a whole 'nother case of worms! Let's get some stuff "in the can" first?

Software? Easy. The interface comes with Cubase LE5 . Excellent but maybe a bit complex as a starter. You can download and use Reaper, free until guilt kicks in and then only $60 and you get constant upgrades forever.

Speaking of downloads? Find "Speccy" and run it. That will tell you everything you need to know about your laptop but I am confident it will hiss all over a dozen or more tracks. 2G of ram would be marginal however.

Dave.

 

[jimmiep]

You bin listening to me!!!?
Heh! Heh!

You need an interface with at least 6 spook juiced mic inputs and some line/DI ins as well. You have not mentioned MIDI but it is a very good thing to have.

The US 1800 gives you 8 mic pre amps and several more line/instrument ins and MIDI. As I said before, there MAY be a better value multitrack AI around now but I am not aware.

Since you ask about "hardware" I am going to be a bit snotty and say, "you will need mics, mic stands and XLR cables plus a few jack to jack jobbies..!"
We have not touched on monitoring? A decent set of closed back headphone will see you through for tracking. Monitoring for mixing later is a whole 'nother case of worms! Let's get some stuff "in the can" first?

Software? Easy. The interface comes with Cubase LE5 . Excellent but maybe a bit complex as a starter. You can download and use Reaper, free until guilt kicks in and then only $60 and you get constant upgrades forever.

Speaking of downloads? Find "Speccy" and run it. That will tell you everything you need to know about your laptop but I am confident it will hiss all over a dozen or more tracks. 2G of ram would be marginal however.

Dave.

Yeah I'm listening! Understanding is another thing....

OK, I'm going to need an interpretation of your post that works for an idiot like me:

Lets assume the following:

- I have mics, mic stands and cables a-plenty
- I have decent closed back headphones
- I have said laptop with 4GB (pretty sure it is)
- I *think* I have a MIDI keyboard somewhere stashed away

So I buy a Tascam US1800, plug in my eight mics..... and then.....?

Do I need anything between the US1800 and my laptop? Soundcard?

Apologies if this is a bit

 

[ecc83]

Yeah I'm listening! Understanding is another thing....

OK, I'm going to need an interpretation of your post that works for an idiot like me:

Lets assume the following:

- I have mics, mic stands and cables a-plenty
- I have decent closed back headphones
- I have said laptop with 4GB (pretty sure it is)
- I *think* I have a MIDI keyboard somewhere stashed away

So I buy a Tascam US1800, plug in my eight mics..... and then.....?

Do I need anything between the US1800 and my laptop? Soundcard?

Apologies if this is a bit

Yes! You will need a USB A to B lead, almost certainly provided. and....http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/535/e_us-1800_om_va.pdf

^Read, learn and inwardly digest.

No worries, this is what NOOB pages are all about!


Dave.

 

[jimmiep]

Yes! You will need a USB A to B lead, almost certainly provided. and....

^Read, learn and inwardly digest.

No worries, this is what NOOB pages are all about!


Dave.

Thank you!

So If I'm right about my laptop capabilities, all I need to buy is the US1800 (with USB lead...) and as I have mics/stands/headphones I'd be good to go!

I'm kind of amazed that the US1800 can deliver 8+ simultaneously recorded tracks to my laptop through a USB connection without the need for any kit in-between!

So here's my decision to make:

a) Buy Tascam US1800 (UK £250GBP) and make move into computer/interface world..

b) Buy Zoom R24 (UK £350 GBP) and be v. portable but limited in future...

I think a) is the sensible move, gives me more scope for the future

 

[grimtraveller]

not to knock standalone recorders, but they're getting a bit dinosaury these days.

Oi !

If you want to get into "real" recording, then I'd advise against a standalone machine, these days.

Harrumph !

And I used one for well over a decade, so I know whereof what I speak.

Sigh...he's probably right,
mutter, grumble....

 

[ecc83]

"I'm kind of amazed that the US1800 can deliver 8+ simultaneously recorded tracks to my laptop through a USB connection without the need for any kit in-between! "

Well, this is how I think it all developed?
Firewire was THE dog's for Audio Interfaces some 5-8 years ago. There were USB interfaces but because FW did not need computer power it was far better once the track count got past about 2 in 2
out. Then, a lot of myth grew up about USB being ***t for audio. Trouble was FW ports were almost unknown (in UK at least) on middle range "office" type affordable computers and it was true that these also did not have the spare power to run multitrack USB.

That all changed because at any given price point PC power just about doubled every year and handling 24 or more tracks is child's play for even a quite modest laptop. There is also the point that companies like RME (and to a lesser extent MOTU) led the way in producing really good USB hardware and MOST importantly, drivers.

Now, Firewire is all but gone on PCs, a process hastened I am sure by the emergence of USB 3.0. There is of course Thunderbolt but, like FW before it you will only see that on macs and really pricey PCs.

One downside to Mtrack USB interfaces over FW is the need for line lump power but VERY few laptops could provide Fussywire power anyway!

Dave. Just MY take on events!

 

[mdainsd]

I use a Tascam US1800 myself going into a macbook pro. It was my first venture into the digital side of recording. I used (still do sometimes) Garageband 11. The Tascam was easy to learn and it has served me very well with no issues at all. I also have a more substantial interface/mixer working with a more involved DAW, but the Tascam set up is just so handy.

I dont think you can wrong with it. The eight mic inputs have the ability to supply phantom power, but understand that it is in to banks of 4 mic inputs each. No big deal, just remember to keep the dynamic mics (if you use them) on one bank and the condenser mics on the other bank with phantom power engaged.