I’m hoping someone can help me find a good lead guitar tone for home recording. I have a Universal Audio “Arrow” interface that came with plugins but I’m just not happy with the tone. I was really excited to try the “Marshall Plexi” plug-in but it just doesn’t provide the lead tone I’m looking for. I’m looking for a soaring “80s” style lead tone. The “Marshall” just sounds too raw and dull. I ended up just doing a track by mic’ing my amp (Mesa DR) with my pedalboard but it has more of a “live” sound than the studio sound I’m looking for. Any suggestions?
Guitar plugins or mic’d amp?
- Thread starter Mdismuke
- Start date
mjbphotos
Moderator
Identify what you mean by 'live sound' vs 'studio sound'. The general advise is always to mic an amp rather than use an amp sim. If by 'live sound' you mean you captured too much of the room, then try again with the mic angled differently at the speaker, use a gobo to block some of the room reflections form getting to the mic, or move the mic closer to the amp... experiment with what you have!
Gtoboy
Well-known member
No offense meant but there are already several guitar sim/amp tone threads that you can peruse to get all kinds of ideas. One of the easiest ways to get mega sustain is to use practice amps cranked and overdriven with a pedal in a closet or under a blanket, or if you have the ability to be noisy, in a room on a chair or amp stand. Many many alternatives.
There are two situations that crop up in HR that, at a guess account for 50% of the questions.
Getting the voice recorded to the person's satifaction and, getting a good guitar tone and of the two I would say the latter is the more difficult because the variables are greater. I shall stay with acoustic recording of an amp because plugs are plugs and you can eff about forever and find or not the sound you want.
Unlike voice at least, the mic choice is easy. If you can't do it with an SM57 you are doing it wrongly! But amps vary tremendously, how and where in the EQ/OD staging what sort of distortion is produced is legion. How loud you run the amp. CAN you run the amp loudly?
The speaker has a phenomenal effect on tone. If the sort of sound YOU want was produced from a Celestion and you have Jensens? Tricky!
I am no player and therefore no recordist but I have read scores of such posts and a distillation of advice/technique could be..
1) What you hear from the amp in the room is never going to be the same as the sound you hear back from the monitors or headphones because those devices are "better" than gitamp cabs and speakers. The trick is to somehow "pre process" the sound from the amp so the recording ends up right. I would guess the "seasoned" recording guys here do that instinctively now?
2)Loud enough but not too loud.
3) "They" say you always need LESS distortion on a recording than a live sound.
Then there is the grappling with instrument and gear to do the recording. A mate can help but otherwise look into "re amping".
Last of all, as always, google sound on sound Aug 07.
Dave.
Getting the voice recorded to the person's satifaction and, getting a good guitar tone and of the two I would say the latter is the more difficult because the variables are greater. I shall stay with acoustic recording of an amp because plugs are plugs and you can eff about forever and find or not the sound you want.
Unlike voice at least, the mic choice is easy. If you can't do it with an SM57 you are doing it wrongly! But amps vary tremendously, how and where in the EQ/OD staging what sort of distortion is produced is legion. How loud you run the amp. CAN you run the amp loudly?
The speaker has a phenomenal effect on tone. If the sort of sound YOU want was produced from a Celestion and you have Jensens? Tricky!
I am no player and therefore no recordist but I have read scores of such posts and a distillation of advice/technique could be..
1) What you hear from the amp in the room is never going to be the same as the sound you hear back from the monitors or headphones because those devices are "better" than gitamp cabs and speakers. The trick is to somehow "pre process" the sound from the amp so the recording ends up right. I would guess the "seasoned" recording guys here do that instinctively now?
2)Loud enough but not too loud.
3) "They" say you always need LESS distortion on a recording than a live sound.
Then there is the grappling with instrument and gear to do the recording. A mate can help but otherwise look into "re amping".
Last of all, as always, google sound on sound Aug 07.
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Here...check out this videos, some good tips in there....and I would also suggest you get the mic real close to the cab, maybe even drape a blanket "tent" over the whole rig if you're picking up too much of your room, which may be giving you that "live" vs. "studio" sound, and then you can apply some appropriate reverb/delay afterwards to the tones you recorded if you want to add more space to the final sound.
Here's some more suggestions.
Totally Gnarly: Five Modern Effect Pedals That Recreate Gritty '80s Sounds | Guitarworld
That said...I'm not sure if you are after that "Big Hair Rock" of the '80s....or more after some of the New Wave guitar tones...?
Thanks Dave,
What you're describing is exactly what I'm experiencing.
What I hear out of the amp is DRASTICALLY different than what is being recorded. And true, it appears that less gain is needed when mic'ing my amp. And the EQ I hear coming out of the amp is TOTALLY different than what is being recorded. My amp settings when recording are NOTHING like what I would use playing live. And yes, I'm using an SM57. Why is that bad?
I was hoping there was a plugin I could use that would offer consistency in my tone for recordings. I hear great tones from others using plugins but, either I haven't found the right plugin or maybe plugins just aren't for me. Which is a shame because the plugins were a deciding factor when purchasing my Universal Audio interface. I even upgraded some plugins in hopes that maybe a good sound just costs more money. Live and learn I guess. While I can appreciate some plugins for EQ, and certain effects, I think the amp simulators are just a complete waste of money.
Regardless, you guys have offered some really good advice and it sounds like I'm just going to have to try to isolate my cabinet and experiment with mic placement. Maybe even experiment with different mics. Unfortunately, I don't think there is an answer but rather all "trial and error".
"And yes, I'm using an SM57. Why is that bad?" No! The '57 is THE goto moc for guitar cabs. My meaning was not then clear.
Voices can be flattered or *****d by the characteristics of different mics but the guitar is recorded with that dynamic more than any other mic by a country mile. yes, peeps have their favourites but if an SM57 does not get the sound you want there is more wrong with the setup than the microphone.
Oh! And I don't think amp "simulators/emulators" are a waste of money. There has been some fantasic progress in guitar modelling amps in the last ten years. Not everyone can afford a good valve amplifier, even fewer can "give it large" at home to get a good tone. Valve amps are heavy, fragile and can be unreliable and especially in a live situation the more or less pissed punters won't know the diff!
But then I would say this wouldn't I? (see top right)
Dave.
Voices can be flattered or *****d by the characteristics of different mics but the guitar is recorded with that dynamic more than any other mic by a country mile. yes, peeps have their favourites but if an SM57 does not get the sound you want there is more wrong with the setup than the microphone.
Oh! And I don't think amp "simulators/emulators" are a waste of money. There has been some fantasic progress in guitar modelling amps in the last ten years. Not everyone can afford a good valve amplifier, even fewer can "give it large" at home to get a good tone. Valve amps are heavy, fragile and can be unreliable and especially in a live situation the more or less pissed punters won't know the diff!
But then I would say this wouldn't I? (see top right)
Dave.
Ujn Hunter
Active member
Make sure you're monitoring your guitar amp through your headphones or monitors... i.e. what the Mic is picking up when dialing in your amp... not what you're hearing in the room. Record a riff on a loop pedal or something for playback if you need to be away from the actual amp to correctly monitor your recorded sound. Also less gain is needed on a recording than you think... if you think the gain sounds right... dial it back a bit more... 
As far as plugins go... perhaps you might want to try some different IRs if you're not getting the sound you want out of a plugin... most plugins are able to disable cab simulation so you can put your own in there. Good luck.
As far as plugins go... perhaps you might want to try some different IRs if you're not getting the sound you want out of a plugin... most plugins are able to disable cab simulation so you can put your own in there. Good luck.Close miking a guitar cab should be pretty forgiving of room noises, but there's a limit to anything. If possible, get the cab out of the room so that you can monitor the miked signal through your monitors without room noise interfering. That will save you time in the long run, since you can hear what you are actually tracking. Just run the cables under the door and put your cab out in the hallway, or in the next room.
Steenamaroo
...
This is the big first hurdle - +1!
If you can monitor through your speakers, or even headphones, that should give you a much better idea of what's getting recorded.
If the amp can be in a different room from the monitoring room that will help a lot too.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Exactly how are you using this amp sim? I suspect many folks just drop it on, pull up a preset, and end up disappointed and disillusioned. What would you do if you plugged into somebody else's amp when they've got the knobs set the way they like them, but it doesn't sound good to you? You turn the knobs. Excuse me if this seems elementary or you've already tried that, but I seriously don't think many people really do.
One thing that you always need to adjust for is your input signal level. If you just plug into any given instrument input on any random interface your signal level could be almost anywhere, and if you adjust the gain from there to make your meters look like your favorite guy on YouTube does for a miced guitar amp all bets are off. The plugin quite definitely does have some sort of nominal level that it "expects", though it's probably not well specified. It's definitely not spelled out in any real practical terms of how a given level might relate to real world voltages. But, you know, single coil pickups are half as loud as humbuckers. If you've normalized your signal like a good little monkey, you won't hear that difference in the amp. It's easy enough to figure out kind of where your interface sits relative to the plugin and work out an appropriate amount of gain or attenuation for your own rig. The way I record my guitars, I know I need about 10db of gain to hit the amp the way I expect. PodFarm has an input level and many others do as well. I set that knob to +10 and don't mess with the input level at all otherwise unless I really want the sound of something like a boost pedal before the amp.
Then you set the other knobs on the amp the same way you would on a real amp. I don't mean like exactly replicate what you dialed in on your favorite space heater. I mean do what you would do with a real amp - turn the knobs til it sounds good.
Now up to this point, it's like your amp is off in some isolation booth and you're sitting in the control room. This actually was pretty standard procedure in certain genres during the '80s. If you want to be authentic... But if you want something closer to what you'd get standing in the same room, you need some serious SPL. A Plexi that's cranked up to sound good hurts. It shakes things off of shelves. More importantly, it shakes the guitar. You need that.
One thing that you always need to adjust for is your input signal level. If you just plug into any given instrument input on any random interface your signal level could be almost anywhere, and if you adjust the gain from there to make your meters look like your favorite guy on YouTube does for a miced guitar amp all bets are off. The plugin quite definitely does have some sort of nominal level that it "expects", though it's probably not well specified. It's definitely not spelled out in any real practical terms of how a given level might relate to real world voltages. But, you know, single coil pickups are half as loud as humbuckers. If you've normalized your signal like a good little monkey, you won't hear that difference in the amp. It's easy enough to figure out kind of where your interface sits relative to the plugin and work out an appropriate amount of gain or attenuation for your own rig. The way I record my guitars, I know I need about 10db of gain to hit the amp the way I expect. PodFarm has an input level and many others do as well. I set that knob to +10 and don't mess with the input level at all otherwise unless I really want the sound of something like a boost pedal before the amp.
Then you set the other knobs on the amp the same way you would on a real amp. I don't mean like exactly replicate what you dialed in on your favorite space heater. I mean do what you would do with a real amp - turn the knobs til it sounds good.
Now up to this point, it's like your amp is off in some isolation booth and you're sitting in the control room. This actually was pretty standard procedure in certain genres during the '80s. If you want to be authentic... But if you want something closer to what you'd get standing in the same room, you need some serious SPL. A Plexi that's cranked up to sound good hurts. It shakes things off of shelves. More importantly, it shakes the guitar. You need that.
The Plexi is the UAD plugin I bought and I’m a little disappointed. I’ve tried every configuration, every combination of mics, placements, pans, and levels.
I’ve even tried running the Plexi plugin with a tube screamer plugin but it sounds even worse. The whole plugin Plexi is just uninspiring to play. I’ve heard some really great tones on YouTube and thought maybe you guys would know of some decent plugins or amp simulators but I guess nothing compares to the real deal. I’ll try isolating the cabinet and see how that goes. Thanks
Tried the Plexi with everything on “10” and it sounds like poo. I didn’t try the comp/sustainer pedal in front though.
Tonight, I tried putting my TS9 in front of my interface and it sounded “okay”. I’ll keep playing with it ... that’s what she said. ?
Thanks!
Steve Ireland
New member
I like to mic the amp and run a DI signal as well. That way you can blend the 2 and get some excellent results. Are you using IRs after the amp sim? Cos they all sound like ass if you don’t.
