getting levels right

F

fendertelemusik

Member
Hey everyone, long time songwriter long time procrastinating recorder....

I'll start with what I use and set up.

I record in my living room, I have two studio monitors about 8 feet away from me on stands and have them slightly turned inwards to hit me centrally, I use a boss 8 track digital recorder and record using guitars,bass and an portable drum kit ( basically pads )

I know little to nothing about eq and compression and just tend to record track by track while playing along... once I have the main song usually 2/3 guitars bass and drums recorded getting the levels right is where I suffer....

The few ways I've tried doing it have confused me a lot.

If I record at a much quieter level and get it sounding right once I boost the master fader, the bass and drums sound way too loud ( and this makes sense as I 've noticed with professional recorded tracks when you turn the volume right down the bass guitar and kick drums become non existent and you can hear all the high end stuff still playing until you turn it so low everything is mute.

If I record at a higher level everything can sound amazing but once turned down you start to notice where things sound off... it's almost like pumping the volume up just meshes everything together and drums sound alive, bass fuller etc...

I've even experimented with just trying to set everything equal using the bar graph on the display so that it all looks like this ------ instead of -_ --_ for example and even then some instruments are louder than other which doesn't makes sense as they should all be outputting at the same level according to the levels bar graph.

any advice would be great, I know how I want it to sound in my head.. but I have hard time hearing if anything is too loud or quiet and im talking it just out the slightest touch but enough that it will overpower another track.

I guess the biggest problem I have is im trying to get a final mix using faders only as I have no idea how to use compression and eq, so its recording my tracks then trying to level them using just faders... is this even possible ?
 
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Your predicament sounds like a monitoring problem - i.e. you are not hearing what the tracks really sound like because of the sound that living room imparts onto it before reaching your ears. This is common in an untreated room. Since its your living room, you may find it easier to mix with headphones.
You said your monitors are 8 ft away from you - are they 8 feet away from each other? What are they?
 
Using headphones is great I can hear how I want it to sound and can notice if anything sounds off much easier for example doubling up a track I can hear when it's coming in just right...however once played through monitors it sounds awful.. something loses its punch or attack etc.
 
Static mixing can be tricky. Commercial productions have level changes throughout which is done with automation and is a big part of the actual mixing process. For the kind of thing that you are describing(without hearing it, mind you, so take this for what it's worth) i would get separation by doing standard LCR mixes which will make getting the levels alot easier. I would put the drums and bass in the middle, balance them first , then pan guitars far left and right, or most of the way at least. A high pass filter on the guitars will help anchor the kick and bass in the middle but isn't necessary.
 
So here is a quick mess around i did using my headphones to set the levels and then mixdown to a stereo track.

(Excuse all the timing issues and sloppy playing I just threw it together to show an example of what sounds good to me when mixing through the headphones and how im disappointed with how it actually sounds when played through stereo speakers.. im hoping someone can tell me whats too loud/ too quiet etc, I used no EQ or compression apart from whatever was set on my guitar effects by default, just straight plug in and play then adjusting levels for a stereo mixdown)


It thought it sounded pretty decent through the headphones with the bass sounding powerful and the drums had plenty of snap, the two far panned guitars stood out as the main riff on headphones but when i listened back to it through the monitor speakers it seems off, bass and drums lost their snappiness and bassiness, sounding more trebly and those two panned guitars and the little licks don't stand out like they did on headphones.

However had I done the mixing using monitors I wouldn't have been able to pinpoint how too loud something was or too quiet as I can with the headphones... but I get a more realistic idea of how the bass and drums will sound when mixdown without the extra bass you get using headphones.

So its trying to find the middle ground.. I've tried using both headphones and monitors simultaneously... but I end up messing up the good work done by the headphones trying to counter the difference and vice versa.

Playing: quickmessaround.mp3 - picosong
 
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that's usually what I do with the first 8 tracks.... bass and drums down the centre and two main guitars left and right hard panned, then when I get the right mix I will bounce it to a stereo track... then I will start to add extras like a third guitar.. or backing sounds, and cymbals etc and pan them slightly left and right.. bounce again to stereo track and then start on the vocals.

however im never happy with the first 8 tracks so end up procrastinating.
 
fendertelemusik said:
So here is a quick mess around i did using my headphones to set the levels and then mixdown to a stereo track.

(Excuse all the timing issues and sloppy playing I just threw it together to show an example of what sounds good to me when mixing through the headphones and how im disappointed with how it actually sounds when played through stereo speakers.. im hoping someone can tell me whats too loud/ too quiet etc, I used no EQ or compression apart from whatever was set on my guitar effects by default, just straight plug in and play then adjusting levels for a stereo mixdown)


It thought it sounded pretty decent through the headphones with the bass sounding powerful and the drums had plenty of snap, the two far panned guitars stood out as the main riff on headphones but when i listened back to it through the monitor speakers it seems off, bass and drums lost their snappiness and bassiness, sounding more trebly and those two panned guitars and the little licks don't stand out like they did on headphones.

However had I done the mixing using monitors I wouldn't have been able to pinpoint how too loud something was or too quiet as I can with the headphones... but I get a more realistic idea of how the bass and drums will sound when mixdown without the extra bass you get using headphones.

So its trying to find the middle ground.. I've tried using both headphones and monitors simultaneously... but I end up messing up the good work done by the headphones trying to counter the difference and vice versa.

Playing: quickmessaround.mp3 - picosong
Click to expand...

The drums sound pretty far back in the mix - like they were miked in an untreated room or that you have reverb on them that is not on the guitars. The bass sounded ok, but you probably need a little hi-mid 'zing' EQ on it (Probably something you cannot do with a stand-alone recorder!)
 
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