A Few Stupid Questions about Recording with a Microphone and Room Treatment

Stonesfan123

New member
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to recording and I have a few questions about recording vocals. So I've got this insulated/soundproof shed in my backyard that my dad uses for woodworking, and I thought that it would be an ideal place to record vocals, but for some reason the sound quality of the recordings I've made in there is absolutely shit compared to the ones I've done in my bedroom (which, of course, I can't use as it's not convenient for noise reasons). Also, I've noticed that while recording in there, my mic picked up the smallest sounds like my computer fan and whatnot, and this doesn't normally happen at all in my bedroom. Does anyone know what might be causing this, and would you know of any solutions to the problem? I'm much more concerned with the sound quality, to be honest. I’m using a Shure Beta 58a dynamic vocal mic, if that helps. Also my shed isn't completely soundproof either; the ground has no carpet, and I'd say only about 70% of the walls actually have insulation on them. It's also full of tools and workbenches, among other things.

I've also been looking into setting up a vocal booth, or something like that. I'm willing to spend about 300-400 dollars, but I'm afraid that I might end up with the same crappy recordings that I got in my shed as I don't really know what I'm doing, and I'm not too keen on blowing all that money on something if I'm going end up with the same cheap results... So I guess that the bottom line is, I need an insulated/soundproof place where I can record vocals without anyone hearing me from the outside, in which the sound quality won't be really crap, like it is in my shed, and I've got a bit of money to spend. Does anyone have any suggestions? Any help would be seriously appreciated. Cheers!
 
In my experience a small, square room with low ceilings is going to sound boxy, crappy and probably have lots of odd reflections that will mess with the sound - though a dynamic shouldn't be too bad. Is it really important that no one hear you when you are recording? I can tell you that the mic is decent so shouldn't be a problem. Maybe you are too focused on soundproofing and isolation (which I've never really liked). A nice big open room with high ceilings always gets me the best results.
 
First, give up on 'soundproofing' - this will cost thousands of $$$. Instead, you can reduce the amount of exterior noise getting picked up by your mic the best you can. If you are picking up the fan noise of your computer (in the shed), make sure it's in front of you when recording in there (the null side of the mic, and don't have your input level set too high.

I suspect what you're getting in the shed is a lot of quick slapback echo - you could post a sample soundfile for others to hear what you think you're hearing.
 
The shed is probably all hard surfaces? Wooden walls, concrete floor, solid workbench?
It MIGHT be dense enough to help with sound egress and ingress but the lack of absorbent material is making the computer sound louder than in the "softer" bedroom.

Make a "gobo" for the PC, a piece of MDF (better HDF!) at least 19 mm and 1x1mtr and stick some sort of absorbent on the PC side. Placed in front of the PC this will reduce the noise quite a lot.

As it's a shed do you have carte blanche? If so hang a lot of material in front and behind you and the mic and BEING a shed you could use a "non-domestic" material like fibreglass. Mind you, the shed should be at least 8cu mtrs (very roughly 1800cu ft) or it will never sound good.

Dave.
 
Here's two versions of my cover of "don't let it bring you down" by Neil Young. The first file contains a vocal take that was recorded in my bedroom, and the vocal in the second file was done in my shed. I added some extra reverb to the one done in my room during the mixing phase, but yeah. It's a pretty rough mix, but I think it should provide as a good comparison for the difference in the sound that I'm getting in the two settings. Clearly, the take I got in my room is of a much higher quality, I just want to know why, and I want to know if there's anything I can do to recreate these settings in my shed. If necessary, I can also take some pictures of the inside of the shed and post them on here, if that would help.

By the way, the guitars and the bass in both files were recorded in my room, the only difference in the files is the vocal. If it helps, I was also using different computer to record these takes. The vocal done in my shed was done with a very old, cheap macbook, and the one done in my bedroom was done with an iMac 27, which is obviously a far superior computer, if that has anything to do with it. The interface that the mic was plugged into was the same in both cases, though.
 
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What level are you recording the vocal at? How close to the mic are you? I hear some clipping which might be the mic itself. The shed one sounds deader. Smaller space does not make better sound Some EQ and reverb would bring it out.
 
I record pretty close to the mic, like maybe 4-5 inches away. I don't very much like the "dead" sound I'm getting in my shed, and I thought this might have been the result of the insulation in there. Do takes recorded in insulated rooms normally sound "dead" like this? Or do you think it's just my shed?

Also, I'm not too sure what you mean by level, but I turned the "gain" knob on my audio interface right down to just above 0 when I was recording in my shed, as for some reason, when I record vocals in there, my voice is detected as being much louder than it is if I record in my room. When I recording in my room, I usually turn the gain up a little bit to maybe 30% or 40%; otherwise it's hardly audible. I thought this might also have something to do with the "crackling" noises you hear in the vocals in the take I recorded in the shed. Or do you think that's something else?

And I don't know what you mean by "clipping", but I really don't think there's anything wrong with the mic. Thanks for your time man, I appreciate it.
 
I don't see where you told us what DAW you are using, but 'levels' refers to the levels showing on the meters in the track you are recording. You shuld be adjusting the interface input knob so you are tracking at around -18 to -12 dB. 'Clipping' means distortion from being too loud - driving the meter into the red.
 
Sorry Mike! I thought I saw Audacity mentioned but no. Please excuse, even more medded up than usual having had two big teeth out.

OP: "Clipping" is an audio tech's term relating to the chopping off of the top and bottom of a signal waveform when it exceeds the system's headroom. This can be seen on an oscilloscope but few people have seen one of those these days.
The DIY guitar pedal building fraternity have a fave circuit that they refer to as a "diode clipper" usually it ain;t!

Dave.
 
I'm just using garageband right now, I might move onto logic when I'm more experienced.
The clipping is only present in the shed recording, and I was wondering how I could get rid of it... Because in there, I turned the input nob on my interface right down to almost zero; because as I said, for some reason, every sound is detected as being much louder in there. When I record in my room, I turn the input knob up to about 30 or 40 percent, or else you can hardly hear the vocals.
 
The knob on the interface if for setting recording l level, not the listening volume. If you set the recording level properly, you then need to set the listening volume with the headphones volume control and the music mix in the computer. Depending on your interface, you might have a monitoring knob to adjust the volume of your performance.
 
One NewB to another, I read the above threads and here are some observations. No matter where you are recording you should always begin doing it close to the same way each time as far as settings are concerned. That way you at least have a reference point . Then adjust and tweak your settings as necessary. One thing I noticed was your "low" setting on your mic, since your lead vocals must "always" be on top of your music try to record it at or just below "0" Vue. Never above 0 since this will cause clipping and distortion in other words...excessive noise. If you record your music about 25% less than your vocal you should end up with a fairly good mix. Mic isolation is a good thing. Use what you have or pick up some hi-density foam and surround your mic with it. You can make a cheap one out of a card board box with the foam. Now make sure your computer is a couple feet away from your mic and use the shortest cables and wires you possibly can for all of your connections. Wires and cables sometimes act as antenna's for RF (radio frequencies) and pick up and transfer those static sounds to your recording. Since your shed is in the back yard check inside and outside to see if there are any overhead power lines that may also be a contributing factor. Another problem area may be "neon" lights. Hope some of this helps.
 
Here's a thought - try recording in your bedroom as it will likely be a larger space than a shed (bigger is better for this stuff). Then put your microphone in front of your closet (not in it - stay away from small spaces) where you hang up your cloths and record by singing facing your cloths. The sound waves from your voice will have to pass through your cloths twice before returning to the microphone. Since cloths can be pretty heavy, this might absorb some of the lower mid range mud it sounds like you are having trouble with - and you won't have to spend $300 bucks for a "vocal booth". Rolls of carpeting really help too if you can pick some up at a local store for cheap. Put a few of those in the corners of your rooms and it should help a bit as well!

If there is too much bass in your voice back up from the mic to reduce any proximity effect which should make your voice more evenly balanced. Then just dial in a little reverb from a plugin (lots of free ones available!) and you should be good to go! Hope that helps!
 
One NewB to another, I read the above threads and here are some observations. No matter where you are recording you should always begin doing it close to the same way each time as far as settings are concerned. That way you at least have a reference point . Then adjust and tweak your settings as necessary. One thing I noticed was your "low" setting on your mic, since your lead vocals must "always" be on top of your music try to record it at or just below "0" Vue. Never above 0 since this will cause clipping and distortion in other words...excessive noise. If you record your music about 25% less than your vocal you should end up with a fairly good mix. Mic isolation is a good thing. Use what you have or pick up some hi-density foam and surround your mic with it. You can make a cheap one out of a card board box with the foam. Now make sure your computer is a couple feet away from your mic and use the shortest cables and wires you possibly can for all of your connections. Wires and cables sometimes act as antenna's for RF (radio frequencies) and pick up and transfer those static sounds to your recording. Since your shed is in the back yard check inside and outside to see if there are any overhead power lines that may also be a contributing factor. Another problem area may be "neon" lights. Hope some of this helps.

Welcome to homerecording.com. You might want to do some reading (here and elsewhere) before giving advice to other newbies.
Not sure what you mean by "0" VUE - maybe this is something in your particular DAW. Tracking should be done in the -18 to -12 dB range. This allows headroom during the mixing stage.
'Hi-density foam' is not what you want to help your vocal recording, specially lining a cardboard box. Foam will cut out all the reflected highs and just make it sound more boxy and dead.
Today's mic and guitar cables typically offer enough shielding that 'static' and RF signals are not an issue. Lights and power lines are more likely to be a problem with unshielded guitar pickups than any cabling. THe OP's problems were his vocal sound, anyway, this is unrelated to that.
 
One thing I noticed was your "low" setting on your mic, since your lead vocals must "always" be on top of your music try to record it at or just below "0" Vue. Never above 0 since this will cause clipping and distortion in other words...excessive noise. If you record your music about 25% less than your vocal you should end up with a fairly good mix.
This is bad advice.

Recording level has absolutely nothing to do with the level it will eventually be in the mix. It's two completely different things with two completely different objectives.

Set the recording levels to get good signal to noise and low distortion with plenty of headroom. This tends to mean that the level of a medium loud sustained note will be about -18dbfs (on the meter in the DAW) If the vocal (or whatever you are recording) is too loud or too quiet in your headphones, that is a monitor mix problem, not a recording level problem. Fix the monitor mix, not the recording level.
 
Mike and Jay beat me to it! Levels that is.

As this is the newb's section it is perhaps moot to remind/explain some terms?

"VU" Or Volume Units is an arcane term that related to a now near defunct audio meter. The standard was that an indication of "0 VU" equated to a line signal voltage of +4dBu* or as near one volt rms** as you need to know. Mixers are usually calibrated such that when the 0 LED is lit they deliver +4dBu but don't bet on it!

"Domestic" audio equipment, cassettes, amps etc, usually run at -10dBV*** or 0.316V aka 316 millivolts (mV). Audio interfaces can have signal outputs anywhere between these levels, it is totally the Wild West of standards.

Recording software uses the dB Full Scale. This is very different from the hardware regime in that it only goes NEGATIVE of 0 (FS). Some AIs, usually upper priced "pro" ones will be calibrated such that -18dBFS results in an output of +4dBu but many, many are not and the "FS to OP volts" is down to the individual make and model.

Recording at 24bits means you can easily keep average levels down at -20dBFS, even lower. If forced to use 16bit gear you can still leave decent headroom since it is almost always the source/room that sets the noise floor, e.g. electric guitar are noisy b'stds and you can rarely get better than -70dBFS noise floor and even a very cheap 16 bit device will be 10 to 15dB better than that.

* dBu: A level regime based on (for VERY ancient reasons) a voltage reference of 0.775 volts rms.

**RMS: The way AC voltages, mains, audio signals, are usually expressed. Note that the actual signal has a peak to peak value. One volt RMS = 2.8V pk-pk. People selling power amplifiers sometimes use peak volts to con you that an amp is twice as powerful as it actually is!

*** dBV or decibel Volts. Yet ANOTHER signal scale! This time based on one volt rms as the reference. Note that -10dBV is NOT 14dB below +4dBu? It is in fact about 12dB below it.

I KNOW I am a pedantic old fart but, typos aside, it behoves all of us to get nomenclature right. This stuff is hard enough for noobs without careless errors!

Dave (errors and omissions excepted!)
 
Thanks for the encyclopedia, Dave. Maybe this section of the forum needs a 'recording levels' sticky. I can never keep all the various means sorted and just call them 'dB's, meaning dBfs.
The 'good old days' of vue-meters were so simple: "just keep the level so it doesn't bounce into the red too much". :cool:
 
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