drums, fiverr, playing for credit and promotion not money, lofi recording

D

damianhk

Member
Not sure if this is allowed, but my experiences with getting drummers on fiverr are not good. I program alot of drums, but sometimes a real drummer is required. I decided to cut my losses with my last experience. The drummer played laid back, then a little better the next time, sort of forcing me to pay $5 a revision. Seems like a scam. The interest seems to be milking me for money instead of doing a song justice. Anyway, I'm done with it.
I was looking for a forum where musicians may want to play on someone's track in exchange for credit at the end of a video or mentions on a website or social media. I didn't see it. I'm not in this for money, but I just wanted to put that out there. Maybe there is a collaboration site out there, but not looking to get jipped again. It would be great if this place had something. I might be better off buying a cheap kick and snare and giving it a shot, or program to sound real. I've done that before.
 
OK, not knowing all the details, $5 is not much money. Playing for free is a whole different thing.

The reason musicians can't get paid a decent wage for playing is exactly what you are saying, "I was looking for a forum where musicians may want to play on someone's track in exchange for credit at the end of a video or mentions on a website or social media."

While innocent, this sets up the thought pattern that playing music is not worth any money, I am not having a go at you personally but I get tired of people wanting me to play for fun or for free for a couple of beers. If the music industry wants to dig out of the Hobby tag we need to realise that we work hard to become good at what we do and we spend a lot of money on equipment, if the musicians themselves have the play for free attitude there is no hope.

Sorry, again I am not focusing in on you, just pointing out a trend.

Alan.

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Well said Witzzy!

There was (just gone) a piece every month in Sound on Sound magazine call "Notes From the Deadline" and it was written by a composer/musician who worked, FL for the music/TV/ad industry.

It was a recurring theme that the companies wanted "examples" of his work for free and getting a decent rate for a job was always a struggle.

I am not a musician but I WAS an electronics tech and I loved messing with electronics all my life as a hobby (still do!) But I did NOT do the fucker for free for other people!!

I also have a brilliant guitarist (yeah I know, I'm his dad but he really is!) son and only very recently has he been able to get even passing decent money for playing.

You want drums? Either buy a kit and learn them or pay!

Dave.
 
In case some folks think I was a bit OTT with my response I would like to follow up with these thoughts?

The World is going to H in a handbasket. In UK we are told we have the lowest unemployment figures practically forever but.
No fekker can afford a house anymore. Many people on £600 a month flats get evicted so they can charge double.
People are on "zero hours contracts" which means their already low income is very sporadic. The minimum wage barely covers food, clothing and utilities. Rent? Mortgage? 'Aving a tall African ungulate!

In much of the rest of the world, technology has replaced people in so many jobs that the employers can pay shit for the shit jobs left. This is 21st century slavery. There is usually no social safety net and governments could not care less.

So! Don't ask people to work for nothing. (as I do here!) If you have worked to gain a skill, demand it is valued.

Nobody is immune from AI. In less than a decade bus, taxi and truck drivers will swell the ranks of the unemployed. As AI gets even smarter "the professions" will be threatened.

I am no luddite. It should be obvious that I love and embrace technology but at some point PEOPLE must be made the priority.

Dave.
 
I can't imagine any decent drummer wanting to set up and record a song for $5 as a 'side business'. It's something to get some experience, or do a favor for someone, and offer to do something for free, but quite another to charge such a low ball figure.
 
I've used Fiverr before, it's cool if you need someone to add a small part to something. I've had bassists and several string players do a good job for me. Drums would be really difficult, not only because of the recording nightmare for a full kit, but because every drummer is different and sometimes styles don't mesh - or - they could just suck and not be able to stay in the pocket. There were several websites for collaborating that I used a long time ago. Kompoz is still up, but I don't know how it works anymore. You could check it out though. Collaboration Station looks like it has been gone for a while. Maybe you could try to recruit someone from the mp3 mixing forum?
 
Recently, I have seen how some sellers are deceptive on fiverr. They get you in the door, then upsell, or force you to revise. I agree with you about drum parts. As a songwriter, you know where you want the kicks, snares and crashes, and a drummer will not feel the song the same way. Revisions could go on for infinity. It's not about skill, because their demo videos are kick ass, but if they can't do a song justice, it's no good. I think i will load in some real drum samples in pcdrummer, and iron it out.
 
Don't forget the good old midi drum route, using a midi drum matrix and a good drum machine / sampler. When you write what you want and it works most midi software now will let you print off the sheet music for the drum part so that any drummer worth while would be able to play the part if you wanted real drums at the end.

I am working on an album with a client at the moment writing drum parts (I can't play LOL) the plan was to do exactly what I suggested, however he likes my drum parts and the drum samples so much we may just keep them for the recording.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
ok, not knowing all the details, $5 is not much money. Playing for free is a whole different thing.

The reason musicians can't get paid a decent wage for playing is exactly what you are saying, "i was looking for a forum where musicians may want to play on someone's track in exchange for credit at the end of a video or mentions on a website or social media."

while innocent, this sets up the thought pattern that playing music is not worth any money, i am not having a go at you personally but i get tired of people wanting me to play for fun or for free for a couple of beers. If the music industry wants to dig out of the hobby tag we need to realise that we work hard to become good at what we do and we spend a lot of money on equipment, if the musicians themselves have the play for free attitude there is no hope.

Sorry, again i am not focusing in on you, just pointing out a trend.

Alan.

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lmfao! I must share this on my FB page!
 
I don't play drums much anymore, but have a guy that will learn/play a 12 song record as a studio drummer for $400. And that is cheap. Really cheap because he is really good...

Plus then you have to pay for my time to set him up and record him.

I would expect $5 worth of drums for $5.
 
a little clarification. The site is called fiverr, meaning five bucks. The $5 is for under two minutes of mp3 files. I got wave files for $10, and the very short tune was only a minute and a half. An average song from this seller would have been $20 to start. I paid $5 for one revision. Total $17 (some fee added). The video samples provided by the seller were very good. I guess it's my fault for expecting him to deliver what was advertised. Lesson learned. Thinking back on it, the best experiences with a drummer were when we were hammering it out in the same room. I just haven't had good luck with getting real drum playing online. Probably will stay away from it.
 
damianhk said:
a little clarification. The site is called fiverr, meaning five bucks. The $5 is for under two minutes of mp3 files. I got wave files for $10, and the very short tune was only a minute and a half. An average song from this seller would have been $20 to start. I paid $5 for one revision. Total $17 (some fee added). The video samples provided by the seller were very good. I guess it's my fault for expecting him to deliver what was advertised. Lesson learned. Thinking back on it, the best experiences with a drummer were when we were hammering it out in the same room. I just haven't had good luck with getting real drum playing online. Probably will stay away from it.
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Yeah man, you get what you pay for.

I am curious what you are looking for. Sometimes you can find a collaborator for free. I can't give any advice for that if I don't know what you are looking for.

By the way, I want a sushi chef to experiment in my home. :)
 
Man that is all cheap, I was given some drum tracks from a client that commissioned a drummer to play his songs, got a drum mix file and the individual drum tracks, $200 per song and I thought that was a bargain. Excellent recording and playing.

Alan
 
witzendoz said:
Man that is all cheap, I was given some drum tracks from a client that commissioned a drummer to play his songs, got a drum mix file and the individual drum tracks, $200 per song and I thought that was a bargain. Excellent recording and playing.

Alan
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Right! It not cheap when quality is involved. Last record recorded in my studio was over $9000 before mastering and duplication that was done by others. But that was a full on no holds barred record. Some do demos here for $100 a song. It just depends on what the client is looking for and their budget.
 
I really hear what you all are saying. Some sellers start cheap on fiverr to get their name out and get good reviews, then charge more. I was sold on the video clips, but it didn't translate to my idea at all. Maybe it's both deception on his part and naivety on mine. Drums are tricky. It's almost like songwriters vs drummers. I agree that a real drummer beats programmed beats, but I also agree that if want something done right, do it yourself. I remember getting compliments way back about my programming on the old boss dr550. I sold it, then switched to pcdrummer. I'll figure it out. You know how it is, you listen to old stuff, and are impressed with what you did, or maybe it's just something fresh hitting your ears. What i was going for was a very loose feel with a room sound. A mellow and choppy verse like "cripple creek" by "the band", and for the solo, open it up like mitch mitchell or keith moon. What i got was "boom chik, boom boom chik. I could have programmed that. For my stuff, i never was fond of individual pads being mic'd. I wish i could find this demo of this band who recorded drums with one sm57. I fell in love with that sound. It's all a learning experience, right?
 
Kompoz is still alive

I think a place like Kompoz is a good bet for volunteer stuff.
There seems to be several drummers there that are pretty dang good.
I play drums as well but never have the time to do it in the time frame most people want it.
At Kompoz you have folks from all over the world helping out.

I think your desire to do the old school drum sound would also be accommodated.
It is actually a whole lot easier to do than multi miked kits, so I would think folks would jump all over that.
 
You'd be surprised at the number of sellers playing for 20 bucks. I did get a decent performance a while back for that amount. I think it made me realize that when i hear drum parts, i better put them where i want them and save my money. Maybe i got lazy, and didn't want to program. I did find a free room kit that comes real close to what i was seeking. What i do is sit back in a chair and play air drums, then transfer to pcdrummer. It's time consuming, but necessary. You can make a kit sound dynamic by using a soft hits for the verse, and louder hits for the chorus and solo. The only thing i don't like about pcdrummer is that you have to cut hihats off by cutting them down to certain milliseconds according bpm. They won't cut out when the next hihat hits like a drum machine. I'm getting there. Appreciate the comments. It opened my eyes. For those who may want to go this route. there is a free kit called "Big Mono". Also here. Look for link that says 254MB > SampleRadar: 1,000 free drum samples | MusicRadar
You can also search for what you want on freesound.org
 
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