Correct cable wiring for using Inserts as Direct Outs

T

traditional85

New member
I am in the process of setting up my home studio and had a question about the correct cable to use for using my Inserts on my mixer for Direct Outs to my recording interface.

I understand you can use the one-click method, but I need something more secure and permanent. I also know Hosa makes their adapters (DOC-106) and sell them for roughly $10 each. Considering I'd need 16+ of these I'd rather not spend $160 on the adapters AND cables. I'm looking for a proper and clean snake setup, so is it possible to simply modify a standard TRS to achieve what I'm looking to do?

Based on the attached image, I would simply solder/bridge the T and R of the cable, and on the other end it shows a male TS with the T and R together, and sleeve/ground unchanged. I'd rather not have to cut off the end and solder on a TS so would I simply be able to just use a standard TRS cable and bridge the T and R on both ends? Am I overthinking something, is it this simple or am I way off?

insert.jpg

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
 
Bridge the T and R on the insert end and move the R on the recorder end to T, leaving the R terminal unconnected. Or just cut R from the recorder end. Mark the two ends because they aren't interchangeable.
 
No, no need to worry, it IS a simple as that.

Depending on how well the plugs are wired you might find it simpler to just slice 2mm of insulation off the wires with a craft knife then tack them with a blob of solder.

Dave.
 
Thanks for the quick replies!

It seems as simple as that now that I actually look at the diagram. I have been searching for info on this for days and all I have found in diagrams and suggestions is to cut the cable and put a TS on the end of the TRS cable. If it is as simple as just doing what you guys say, why would I have found no one else suggesting this? Cutting and adding a TS end seems like more work than doing what you guys suggest.

You can buy a 16 channel, 10ft TRS snake with servicable ends for $50. Why would anyone spend $160 for the Hosa adapters AND cables? Hmm.
 
I am pretty ignorant on balanced / unbalanced setup and recommendations. I know balanced isn't ALWAYS needed and that issues may not arise with noise with unbalanced setups if set up correctly. I was just under the assumption that I should stick with TRS when available, as the inputs on the interface are balanced (if that matters.)

If I were to get the TRS snake route and modify the TRS connections on either end like we discussed originally, would that be the same signal path as using those 1/4" TRS to TS adapters from the Inserts and using TS cables to the recorder? It seems like there are several options to get this working... I'm just trying to figure out the best route. My only requirement is that I do not want to use the first-click method with a TRS. I don't mind soldering like in the original diagram, nor if it's a $25 difference, I would much rather do less work to get it done (aka, chopping TRS ends and adding TS ends is my last resort.)

I know you mentioned your suggestion would be to get a TS snake and put TRS connections on the other ends, but that is the last thing I want to do if using the adapters and TS cables would be the same thing.

If it makes any difference, this setup is a small satellite setup in a spare bedroom. The mixer in question is a Behringer SX3242FX into a Behringer UMC1820 interface and the cable runs would be 10 feet max. It's not high dollar gear by an stretch of the imagination, I just want it to work and don't want to waste money on the wrong cables.
 
The TRS on an insert jack is not balanced, it's in/out. It might be tip=send and ring=return or the reverse. The ground is on the sleeve, common to both paths.

On a balanced TRS the tip is the "hot" or positive signal and the ring is the "cold" or negative signal, and the sleeve is common. What that means is you've got a positive and negative copy of the same signal. When the signal is received, the negative is flipped and combined with the positive. If any noise gets in on the cable it gets canceled out by that process. Technically, you might not even need signal on both legs of the balanced input.
 
The mixer has an earthed IEC mains input and it is possible that this setup will give rise to a hum, aka ground, aka earth loop. Not likely since the AI is powered from a 12V 20W wall rat and generally these are earth free these day. However, if a hum was evident you could try 'impedance' balancing the insert outputs (ISWIM!) and in extremis, dissing the sleeve connection. Lot of fiddly work and would require starting with fresh TRS plugs. (yes, you COULD clean up the originals but even MORE fiddly work!)

I suggest you connect the system up, complete with monitors and any other ancillary gear and give it a blow using the "half in, one click, half arsed" technique. If you should get a hum, get back here before you get slodderin!

Now, I am going to be my usual, tekky, nerdy, old fart self and ask..Do you have a digital multimeter? If not FCS get one before you embark on this marathon task and moreover get one that BLEEPS for solid continuity. Much quicker if you don't have to look.

Meant to say, I had the UMC204HD for a few weeks and found it excellent, if its bigger brother is the same or better you are in for a treat!

Dave.
 
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OOOPS! I see you have also posted at SoS forum and Hugh Robjohns has spotted an error!

The simple link will NOT work going into a balanced input. Go by Hugh's teachings!

N.B. The caveats about ground loops and getting a meter still apply.

Dave.
 
I missed "the inputs of the interface are balanced." Some are fine with unbalanced inputs, some are not. Hopefully the advice on SoS will get you there.
 
ecc83 said:
The mixer has an earthed IEC mains input and it is possible that this setup will give rise to a hum, aka ground, aka earth loop. Not likely since the AI is powered from a 12V 20W wall rat and generally these are earth free these day. However, if a hum was evident you could try 'impedance' balancing the insert outputs (ISWIM!) and in extremis, dissing the sleeve connection. Lot of fiddly work and would require starting with fresh TRS plugs. (yes, you COULD clean up the originals but even MORE fiddly work!)

I suggest you connect the system up, complete with monitors and any other ancillary gear and give it a blow using the "half in, one click, half arsed" technique. If you should get a hum, get back here before you get slodderin!

Now, I am going to be my usual, tekky, nerdy, old fart self and ask..Do you have a digital multimeter? If not FCS get one before you embark on this marathon task and moreover get one that BLEEPS for solid continuity. Much quicker if you don't have to look.

Meant to say, I had the UMC204HD for a few weeks and found it excellent, if its bigger brother is the same or better you are in for a treat!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Will take all of this into consideration, thanks! Yeah, I've got a few laying around my garage... I work on motorcycles and the wiring for those makes more sense to me, haha.

I'm running the UMC204HD on my laptop setup and have had no issues with it either! I'll be adding the ADA8200 to the 1820 once I get everything up and running.
 
If the inputs of the other device are balanced, then it's quite possible to ignore the destination device's ground connection and feed the unbalanced feed to the tip and ring, leaving the sleeve unterminated. So the 'sniff' connection to go into the usual unbalanced insert socket has the tip and ring shorted together and this is fed to the tip of the jack the other end. The sleeve of the insert jack goes to the ring the other end, and there is no connection to the destination ground on the sleeve. It works just the same on XLR inputs. Works on transformer and electronically balanced inputs.
 
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