Audio is ALWAYS too quiet

[JGTW]

Hello! I'm new on this forum, but I have been a musician, band member and home recorder for about 20 years now.

By far the biggest dissapointments regarding home recording for me is this: my audio always seems to be too quiet.

I record in Cubase 10 Elements through:
- a Yamaha mg10xu mixer/2 channel OUT audio interface
- directly from my Yamaha CP73 keyboard through USB (= i.e. an audio interface as well)

When I record through the Yamaha CP73 keyboard, the volume buttons are inactive, so I presume the audio level I send out is very much OK.

I get this in Cubase:


When I export this and playback, this is obviously too quiet compared to any other source...

In total this would look something like this:


It also always sounds like there is just no headroom: when I use the faders to turn up the volume, this almost immediately results in a red master fader and distortion...

Obviously i'm doing something wrong. I'm very good with IT, computers and audio and I also did a Cubase intro course, but clearly I'm missing a link here.

 

[rob aylestone]

When you route a sound source to the input channel, do the meters hardly move? If this is the case, you need to increase your channel gain on the external mixer - if you have a level on the mixer master, this should be the same level in cubase's ;eft hand input channels. If these are low, you could try this - insert on the input channel the cubase compressor, found in the dynamics menu, turn on the compressor but adjust it to not really compress, then use the makeup gain function to increase the output level. This works for me when I am too lazy to walk across the room to actually turn up the interface gain for a quiet patch. I suspect it might also work for the usb input from the keyboard, but to be honest I thought that was for MIDI - I didn't know the Yamaha sent audio from the keyboard, so cannot comment.

 

[JGTW]

but to be honest I thought that was for MIDI - I didn't know the Yamaha sent audio from the keyboard, so cannot comment.

The Yamaha cp USB acts as Midi interface but also as a real audio interface so you can use the built-in sound engine...

I'll try your tips tomorrow...

 

[mjbphotos]

Does the Yammie have a separate volume control for the USB output? If not, its volume is controlled by the mains fader.

 

[JGTW]

I'm not quite there yet...

- my piano is on 80% volume
- channel volume on my interface is 100%
- master volume on my interface is 100%
- my piano is at 80% voume - I cannot put it louder or the VU meter on the interface gets red and I hear distortion
- but the volume is good on my headphones (straight from the interface)

- hitting the piano hard (touching the red on the interface), gives this in cubase



When i record this, it's ok-ish, but totally not the same volume as the MIDI piano (keyteq) is with the same data (I recorded audio + midi).

The MIDI piano is significantly louder as the audio piano...

 

[rob aylestone]

I'm confused - the decisive factor is the distortion you can hear at the interface (as in the Yamaha?)

This is very odd, because this suggests that the metering up to that point is accurate - going higher creates distortion. However the meters in cubase also seem to be in the similar area. Touching red when playing hard looks pretty ok in cubase with a sensible matter deflection. If the MIDI is louder when played by an internal VSTi, then can you simply not turn the MIDI piano down? Personally, I'd decide which piano sounded best and just use that. Different volume from identical MIDI is quite normal - each VSTi decides how it will respond. My favourite Kontakt sampler for example is always quiet compared to a different VSTi, and I just make up gain as I explained. I'd be very surprised if the VSTi sound isn't the best one, they usually beat the real output from Yamaha pianos - which seem optimised for live performance. They've always been troublesome in that area. Not following the volume curve of real pianos, even their rather nice own ones. Their very expensive grand piano electronic ones are nice played hard but very strange, played quietly. My favourite piano sounds now are Pianoteq in 1st place, and the Grandeur in Kontakt second. I don't use the piano sound from any of my other kit at all. My Gem stage piano sounds great on stage, but records really averagely.

 

[mjbphotos]

I'm not quite there yet...

- my piano is on 80% volume
- channel volume on my interface is 100%
- master volume on my interface is 100%
- my piano is at 80% voume - I cannot put it louder or the VU meter on the interface gets red and I hear distortion
- but the volume is good on my headphones (straight from the interface)

- hitting the piano hard (touching the red on the interface), gives this in cubase

View attachment 107219

When i record this, it's ok-ish, but totally not the same volume as the MIDI piano (keyteq) is with the same data (I recorded audio + midi).

The MIDI piano is significantly louder as the audio piano...

Don't worry about the MIDI volume of those tracks - turn them down.
Looking at that meter, you do not need to track that loud! Anywhere in the -18 to -12dBFS range is fine.

 

[JGTW]

If the MIDI is louder when played by an internal VSTi, then can you simply not turn the MIDI piano down?

If I turn everything down to match the piano volume, won't everything be quieter as any youtube or spotify audio. How to I turn up the final mix then?

 

[Chili]

How to I turn up the final mix then?

You can use a Limiter or Maximizer type plug on the main bus to get the volume up.

 

[JGTW]

You can use a Limiter or Maximizer type plug on the main bus to get the volume up.

And this is not considered a big no-no ? I tried to do it without too much tricks. Just do it right from the beginning and maximize everything from the start..'

 

[Chili]

If you're trying to match volume levels of other artists on YouTube or Spotify, you're going to need to use the same tools as them. My recommendation would be not to try to get the max volume when recording and mixing. Keep the levels at -18dbfs as suggested earlier. Get a good mix and don't worry about volume levels. Then after you are happy with what you have, you can bring up the volume with a limiter or maximizer. You might need to tweak your mix a little after putting the limiter on the master bus.

Or, not worry about being louder and let your listeners turn the volume up on their own.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Just do it right from the beginning and maximize everything from the start..'

Getting everything up to final volume from the start is not doing it right. Doing it right is recording and mixing with your average levels around -18dBFS and your peaks well below 0dBFS. Once you have a mix you apply a decent mastering limiter to get the whole thing up to the target volume. Getting that volume is nearly the last step in the process, not the first.

 

[DM60]

What Boulder said.

I liked his response better than mine.

 

[rob aylestone]

I have never paid hardly any attention to channel levels. I like to work on the mix with every fader not too high so it runs out of steam at the top, as in you need a bit more electric piano and cannot get it, and again faders not working at the very bottom. In Cubase this means that the actual absolute levels are not important. If a rough mix means that you cannot get enough output, then boost it, but if something is too loud lose it. You have leeway on the master fader to get the output level to whatever technical loudness level you wish. -18 oddly seems to be for me almost simple to get without looking at the meters, because I NEVER alter the amplifier volume for my monitors. If I need to lower the output because my ears tell me it is too loud, it will be above the notional perfect level. My ears let me get very close to that automatically, and I just fine tune. For me - it's balance between the sources that matter - the output mix level is easily sorted.