Analogue mixer to DAW

V

vwsnufkin

New member
Hey guys and girls :)

Total newbie here :thumbs up:

With my band we just got this awesome Soundcraft 200sr mixer (24ch) which has been modded to have jack outputs! We want to start recording with it because it supposedly has great preamps:D, but, and heres the question, is there a cheap AD converter somewhere that we can use? And what do we all need? We already have breakout cables jack to Dsub. But all i can find are +-€2000 converters (and i sometimes don't even see a usb output on there? How does that work??) Is it maybe possible to use a 24ch interface for this? but then to circumvent the preamps from that interface?

The DAW we use now is Cubase. (dont know if this matters, but sometimes i see Protools mentioned in an AD converter description)

Hope you can help us get started on this adventure :)

Marty
Between The Jars
 
MOTU has a 24 io interface. It’s an old model that uses FireWire. So unless you have a Mac or a PC with thunderbolt, you can pretty much rule that out.

Soundcraft makes a 24 channel recorder that you can transfer to your DAW.
 
CrowsofFritz said:
MOTU has a 24 io interface. It’s an old model that uses FireWire. So unless you have a Mac or a PC with thunderbolt, you can pretty much rule that out.
Click to expand...

The 24io uses a Firewire cable to connect to a PCIe 424 host card using a proprietary data protocol.

I use a 24i (24 channels in, 2 out) and a 2408 MkII.
 
vwsnufkin said:
Hey guys and girls :)

Total newbie here :thumbs up:

With my band we just got this awesome Soundcraft 200sr mixer (24ch) which has been modded to have jack outputs! We want to start recording with it because it supposedly has great preamps:D, but, and heres the question, is there a cheap AD converter somewhere that we can use? And what do we all need? We already have breakout cables jack to Dsub. But all i can find are +-€2000 converters (and i sometimes don't even see a usb output on there? How does that work??) Is it maybe possible to use a 24ch interface for this? but then to circumvent the preamps from that interface?

The DAW we use now is Cubase. (dont know if this matters, but sometimes i see Protools mentioned in an AD converter description)

Hope you can help us get started on this adventure :)

Marty
Between The Jars
Click to expand...

You need more than a converter, you need an audio interface. I suspect you won't need more than 16 channels from the console to the computer at a time, so that might open up some more options. Keep the last 8 channels of free for 2-track return from the computer and the like. It's nice to have a hardware reverb hooked up to the console in case you want a bit of reverb in your headphone mix.
 
Thanks! Ive just stumbled uppon the CYMATIC AUDIO UTrack24. Its very cheap! But it has the Dsub inputs and can record 24ch at once! (we'd like to do some live recording as well :guitar:). You think its any good?
 
I’ve actually got a cymatic! We use it to play tracks for the band, and in two years it’s not missed a beat. The app is good and solid too. I forgot it has inputs and can be used in this way. The only downside is the cost of the dsub to xl cables! For what we use it for we use it’s other features, but to be honest, whenever we need to record a live show, we plug a MacBook into the mixers. We have a Midas M32-Mix: a behringer x-32 and an x-32 rack. These can be grabbed second hand quite cheaply and make an excellent interface with loads of inputs, you’d just use the channel gains, phantom power and nothing else.
 
vwsnufkin said:
Thanks! Ive just stumbled uppon the CYMATIC AUDIO UTrack24. Its very cheap! But it has the Dsub inputs and can record 24ch at once! (we'd like to do some live recording as well :guitar:). You think its any good?
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome. The Cymatic unit gets a qualified thumbs up here Cymatic uTrack 24
The converter specifications are not 'state of art' but it should be easily good enough for 'live' recording of rock music.

However! A brief look at that mixer shows it does not have 'Direct Outputs' and that complicates using it for multi-track recording.
Yes, you could use the inserts but that will need specially wired TRS plugs to D sub cables. You would only be able to play back (through the mixer) a stereo mix unless you either replugged the whole jack field or made a switching unit to select 'send or return' (you did however mention that the mixer was "modified", how?)

Another anomaly? The XLR outputs are wired "Pin 3 hot" instead of the long established convention of p2 hot. That could cause some weirdess when connected to other gear. TRS jacks appear to standard 'tip hot'.

Another caveat. The mixer uses a bespoke external power supply. Guard that with yer life! I have seen many threads on several forums of people desperately seeking power supplies for legacy gear...MOST often mixers! In fact, if you really intend to go ahead seriously with this project start looking for a spare power supply now!

Dave.
 
rob aylestone said:
The only downside is the cost of the dsub to xl cables!
Click to expand...
Luckily we got those with the mixer! How are your experiences with it? Sound wise? I read all sorts of reviews about the A/D converters installed. And is it a problem for you that its 48khz if you want to record on all 24 channels?
 
ecc83 said:
Hi and welcome. The Cymatic unit gets a qualified thumbs up here
The converter specifications are not 'state of art' but it should be easily good enough for 'live' recording of rock music.

However! A brief look at that mixer shows it does not have 'Direct Outputs' and that complicates using it for multi-track recording.
Yes, you could use the inserts but that will need specially wired TRS plugs to D sub cables. You would only be able to play back (through the mixer) a stereo mix unless you either replugged the whole jack field or made a switching unit to select 'send or return' (you did however mention that the mixer was "modified", how?)

Another anomaly? The XLR outputs are wired "Pin 3 hot" instead of the long established convention of p2 hot. That could cause some weirdess when connected to other gear. TRS jacks appear to standard 'tip hot'.

Another caveat. The mixer uses a bespoke external power supply. Guard that with yer life! I have seen many threads on several forums of people desperately seeking power supplies for legacy gear...MOST often mixers! In fact, if you really intend to go ahead seriously with this project start looking for a spare power supply now!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your knowledge :)

You think its good enough for studio work as well? It does 48khz at 24 channels and 96 on only 8 simultaneously.

So from what ive been told they modded the inserts to be outputs. We have those TRS to Dsub25 cables included. So that wont be a problem i hope.

What kind of "weirdness" could develop with the "Pin 3 hot". Dont think itll be a problem if we just use them for mics and DIs right?

And thanks! ill make sure to let everyone know to be extra careful with the power supply :thumbs up:
 
vwsnufkin said:
Thanks for your knowledge :)

You think its good enough for studio work as well? It does 48khz at 24 channels and 96 on only 8 simultaneously.

So from what ive been told they modded the inserts to be outputs. We have those TRS to Dsub25 cables included. So that wont be a problem i hope.

What kind of "weirdness" could develop with the "Pin 3 hot". Dont think itll be a problem if we just use them for mics and DIs right?

And thanks! ill make sure to let everyone know to be extra careful with the power supply :thumbs up:
Click to expand...

IMHO 48 kHz/24 bits is going to give you all the quality you need.

So, inserts are now outputs, fine, balanced? If not probab;y no t a worry, be nice though.

Pin 3 hot. Means the outputs are goig to be out of phase (more correctly "wrong polarity") with almost anything else you have kicking around, could get strange 'cancellations'.

Yes, guard that PSU well, make sure it is always kept cool and I hope you are looking for another on...YESTERDAY! Actually, since it is not a complex regulated supply any 1/2 awake 'tronics chap could knock you up a replacement for under 200 ees I bet.

Have fun.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Pin 3 hot. Means the outputs are goig to be out of phase (more correctly "wrong polarity") with almost anything else you have kicking around, could get strange 'cancellations'
Click to expand...

I wouldn't expect that to be a problem unless the same source is recorded at the same time through another device. Also, if using balanced outputs that are likewise pin 3 hot, it puts the signal back into the same polarity as any other device.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I wouldn't expect that to be a problem unless the same source is recorded at the same time through another device. Also, if using balanced outputs that are likewise pin 3 hot, it puts the signal back into the same polarity as any other device.
Click to expand...

I had not looked at the mic XLRs but yes, they are at least consistent, pin 3 hot but then TRS jacks are conventional tip hot, ring cold!

I would just love to know the reason behind it?

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I would just love to know the reason behind it?
Click to expand...

I think it's just because there was no universal standard, so regional standards varied from one another. UK gear was fairly consistently pin 3 hot until they switched to match the US standard.
 
The uTrack is as transparent as I can tell. The only7 slight weirdness is that the format on the drive optimised for the playback purpose - so you use a bit of software to take your normal audio file and stick it onto the unit so it can be solid and dependable, and in fairness it has always lived up to that. We use a portable hard drive formatted to the unit's requirements and it's never missed a cue - so much so that we tend to ignore it (even though we've not played a single show since March!) Our stage rack has the uTrack, a 32 input stage box and the spare X32 rack in it. It has just 8 replay channels connected - we're actually a live band, but our keyboard player has rheumatoid arthritis and last year they messed his meds up and his hands twisted really badly and he just can't play some of the songs - he uses an old M1 keyboard that is layered and split and changes program many times in each song, and his finger were hitting more and more wrong keys. He has played these songs for 25 years - and the band as a whole decided that rather than him give up, which he wanted to do, he could carry on singing and we took his keyboard, recorded 6 tracks from it - at good old 1980s quality, added a click and the sound guy can swap his hands on a bad day, for good ones on track. We hear it in our ears, and can't tell if it's the real keys or the recorded ones, quality wise. We don't use it to add extra tracks - just poor Ian's.

The only snag we've found is that as we're all on IEMS and personal mixers, he realised that we had all turned his live keys down, and turned up the track version - when he tried to play something and realised that not only were the audience hearing the track 'him', we too were listening to the track. he felt dreadful - unwanted and useless. A tricky problem, but the uTrack is a positive machine. We bought ours because the drummer is in another band who also use the same one.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I think it's just because there was no universal standard, so regional standards varied from one another. UK gear was fairly consistently pin 3 hot until they switched to match the US standard.
Click to expand...

Really? Must have been peculiar to "studio" gear because I was more into the PA world (AGMs, and P2Ps not rock bands!) from about age 20 (now 75) and XLRs were always pin 2 hot.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Really? Must have been peculiar to "studio" gear because I was more into the PA world (AGMs, and P2Ps not rock bands!) from about age 20 (now 75) and XLRs were always pin 2 hot.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Could be. Like I said, there was no real standard until at least the 80s, maybe even the 90s.
 
We decided to spend a bit more and go for the MOTU 24AI. Seems to do the job just right for what we want.

About the CYMATIC AUDIO utrack24 I read very various things. Some very good/some very bad. And the website even seems offline atm (emailed them and they sent me a link to the downloads page which works. But if you just go to their website youll end up buying viagra instead... :facepalm:) And might something go wrong with the device i dont feel like theyll help out much haha. As we would mostly just use it as an AD converter/interface the extras it has arent very convincing for us. From what ive read so far its a better disc recorder than interface.

We used to record on an old TASCAM which was fine! But this will be our first big step towards more prof recording :). So ill probably be back with more questions :thumbs up: Very excited to get started and to have it fully up and running
 
The 24Ai looks like a successor to the 24i that I use. The 24i needs a PCIe host card, but the 24Ai is straight USB, which should be more widely compatible (as in with a laptop). I like the MOTU stuff. It's not super flashy, but it has been very reliable for me.
 
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