About needing a mixer

Dark Light923

New member
I am starting out with music production and I intend to record and produce my music and songs. My question is, do I need a mixer for this, as a beginner? I am starting out on GarageBand, and I have gathered that GarageBand does not have a mixer, so I may need one. But then I also read that a mixer is not necessary for recording at home. I am confused. I also read that you must buy a good mixer, not just any cheap one. I am unsure as to what to do. I also read that if you have a good audio interface, you don't need a mixer. I will purchase the Roland Rubix 44 interface, which I am told, is a good interface to have. Please advise. Thank you.
 
You almost certainly don't need a hardware mixer. Garage Band, like every DAW, has that function built in. A hardware mixer becomes useful when you're recording a group of musicians all at once and you need to manage a bunch of different headphone mixes. Even that can be done with the right software and interface.
 
You almost certainly don't need a hardware mixer. Garage Band, like every DAW, has that function built in. A hardware mixer becomes useful when you're recording a group of musicians all at once and you need to manage a bunch of different headphone mixes. Even that can be done with the right software and interface.
Hi thanks for the swift reply. When you say a hardware mixer, are you referring to a mixer? Is it the same thing? Thank you for your advice! I guess I will get a mixer when I get more experienced, I suppose. I am going to the music shop this week and will buy all the things I need to begin producing my music! Thanks!
 
Yes, by hardware mixer I mean an actual metal and plastic piece of equipment to which you connect other pieces of equipment that produce the audio signals you want to mix together into one audio signal. If the sources of audio are all inside your computer then you can use a software mixer (part of your DAW) to combine them. An audio interface lets you record hardware audio sources (microphones, guitars etc.) into the computer where you can mix them with software. The interface will have some basic mixing feature so you can hear playback from the computer and whatever you're playing/singing at the same time, but you'll do the real mixing with your DAW.

The mixer controls in Garageband are to the left of the audio waveform display in this pic:

S56JtfzXhn8r5tXdvotqKQ-650-80.jpg

This is a hardware mixer:

81Dct2xUfsL._SL1500_.jpg
 
In the past 8 weeks, I have gone totally hardware mixerless. I don't miss it at all. I can do everything I need in the computer now, and old fashioned mixers are just useful if you have many mics on the go - I do have mixers with plenty of inputs available, but in the studio, it's rare I need more than the 8 on my interface.
 
Roland Rubix44 Review

That ^ guy seems impressed with the interface so I doubt you could do better for the money.

Don't forget, as you are starting up recording that there are a shedload of other things you need? The main one is monitoring. Yes, you can do a lot on headphones but you will need two sets. One open backed and as expensive as you can manage to get good quality sound. The second set need to be closed back to exclude external sound but most importantly to prevent 'spill' from the cans leaking into a mic.

The generally held opinion though is that you need monitor loudspeakers and they will be a major cost if they are at all accurate. Opinions differ widely but $1000 per pair would seem a fair bottom budget.

You will also need acoustic treatment in your recording/monitoring space.

Oh yes! Mixers! No, you don't NEED one but a cheapo $50 jobby can be handy to have around for headphone and other amplifying duties.

Dave.
 
What they all have said ^^

You don't need a physical, hardware mixer. All the traditional mixing tasks can be done inside the DAW.
 
Roland Rubix44 Review

That ^ guy seems impressed with the interface so I doubt you could do better for the money.

Don't forget, as you are starting up recording that there are a shedload of other things you need? The main one is monitoring. Yes, you can do a lot on headphones but you will need two sets. One open backed and as expensive as you can manage to get good quality sound. The second set need to be closed back to exclude external sound but most importantly to prevent 'spill' from the cans leaking into a mic.

The generally held opinion though is that you need monitor loudspeakers and they will be a major cost if they are at all accurate. Opinions differ widely but $1000 per pair would seem a fair bottom budget.

You will also need acoustic treatment in your recording/monitoring space.

Oh yes! Mixers! No, you don't NEED one but a cheapo $50 jobby can be handy to have around for headphone and other amplifying duties.

Dave.
Hi thanks for the reply. I am very new to music production. When you spoke of monitors, I have ordered Adam Studio Monitor A5X x2 (speakers.) Will that be ok? I am not sure exactly what you mean when you speak of monitors. What do you mean when you say one has to be open backed? And the second set needed to be closed back? Please help.
 
Hi thanks for the reply. I am very new to music production. When you spoke of monitors, I have ordered Adam Studio Monitor A5X x2 (speakers.) Will that be ok? I am not sure exactly what you mean when you speak of monitors. What do you mean when you say one has to be open backed? And the second set needed to be closed back? Please help.

Yes, Adam monitors have a very good reputation, I am sure they will serve you well.

"Open" and "closed" backed refers to headphones. At any given price point, the former give better sound quality but little of no sound proofing for noise going in or indeed out!

Closed backed cans give reduced fidelity but are essential when for instance recording with an open mic or you get 'squeaky' leakage. These CAN be as cheap as chip so long as they give reasonable stoppage.

I have a pair of AKG P92s that sound very good to me but do not give much sound attenuation. Beyer and Sony seem to be favourites?

Dave.
 
Yes, Adam monitors have a very good reputation, I am sure they will serve you well.

"Open" and "closed" backed refers to headphones. At any given price point, the former give better sound quality but little of no sound proofing for noise going in or indeed out!

Closed backed cans give reduced fidelity but are essential when for instance recording with an open mic or you get 'squeaky' leakage. These CAN be as cheap as chip so long as they give reasonable stoppage.

I have a pair of AKG P92s that sound very good to me but do not give much sound attenuation. Beyer and Sony seem to be favourites?

Dave.
Thanks again for the reply. You speak of headphones, I have the Roland RH 300 headphones, well, I ordered them, that is. I was told from the shop that they are good headphones for music production, but couldn't find many reviews online for the headphones. Are you aware of them? DO you think they are good enough for music production?
You speak of technical writing, that I am not too aware of, to be honest.
Can you please tell me more about what you said earlier, when you said: "acoustic treatment in your recording/monitoring space"
The room I will be producing music is just a normal size bedroom. I really wouldn't know where to start with regard to acoustic treatment. Please advise. thank you.
 
I have found a couple of reviews of the Rolands, mainly from the 'hi fi' community but they seem very well thought of. They are of the closed back type and therefore probably more useful than open types.

However, you are getting the Adams and many will tell you that you cannot REALLY produce good mixes on headphones. But you need cans, for example, say you have a track recorded, guitar chords. You now want to add vocals on another track. You cannot have the speakers working playing the backing or else,
1) you will record the backing twice and horribly.
2) you could get screaming acoustic feedback.

So, look upon the headphones as a utility that allow such work. They can also be a 'microscope' allowing you to pick up tiny noises that might escape you on the monitors until it is too late. But, reproduction on speakers will give you a vastly better idea of the sound as it would be if you were playing all the parts, live in the room.

The Room. You need to absorb the sounds you make in same because ALL rooms sound horrible unless they are very large and even some bloody big ones do anyway! Classic setup for a mic in a bedroom is a duvet on a frame (clothes horse) i.e. behind the mic and a second duvet or thick blanket behind you. Thus you stop some sound getting away and some 'getting back'. Best to just setup the mic, sing or play then rig the treatment and I am sure you will see the beneficial effect.

Of course, proper room treatment goes much further. Most needing control is bass and that is done with large chunks of 'stuff' rockwool or fibreglass but most small room are in fact so bad in the bass that even very large bass 'traps' as they are called can do but little. MOST importantly listen to music through you monitors (and cans, a bit) and get an idea what commercial mixes of pieces of or close to your genre sound like.

I cannot really help you with the nuts&bolts of recording.Did some years ago and with son but well out of it now, just a mere retired OLD technician!
Check the stickies here and also Sound On Sound | The World's Premier Music Recording Technology Magazine forum. You have a lot of reading and experimenting to do. I envy you!

Dave. (oh! and deaf with it)
 
I have found a couple of reviews of the Rolands, mainly from the 'hi fi' community but they seem very well thought of. They are of the closed back type and therefore probably more useful than open types.

However, you are getting the Adams and many will tell you that you cannot REALLY produce good mixes on headphones. But you need cans, for example, say you have a track recorded, guitar chords. You now want to add vocals on another track. You cannot have the speakers working playing the backing or else,
1) you will record the backing twice and horribly.
2) you could get screaming acoustic feedback.

So, look upon the headphones as a utility that allow such work. They can also be a 'microscope' allowing you to pick up tiny noises that might escape you on the monitors until it is too late. But, reproduction on speakers will give you a vastly better idea of the sound as it would be if you were playing all the parts, live in the room.

The Room. You need to absorb the sounds you make in same because ALL rooms sound horrible unless they are very large and even some bloody big ones do anyway! Classic setup for a mic in a bedroom is a duvet on a frame (clothes horse) i.e. behind the mic and a second duvet or thick blanket behind you. Thus you stop some sound getting away and some 'getting back'. Best to just setup the mic, sing or play then rig the treatment and I am sure you will see the beneficial effect.

Of course, proper room treatment goes much further. Most needing control is bass and that is done with large chunks of 'stuff' rockwool or fibreglass but most small room are in fact so bad in the bass that even very large bass 'traps' as they are called can do but little. MOST importantly listen to music through you monitors (and cans, a bit) and get an idea what commercial mixes of pieces of or close to your genre sound like.

I cannot really help you with the nuts&bolts of recording.Did some years ago and with son but well out of it now, just a mere retired OLD technician!
Check the stickies here and also Sound On Sound | The World's Premier Music Recording Technology Magazine forum. You have a lot of reading and experimenting to do. I envy you!

Dave. (oh! and deaf with it)
Thank you for your reply. What is the difference between the closed back type than the open type? As I said I am vey new to all this, although not new to music itself. I heard that the headphones I spoke of earlier, are more "neutral" although I don't know what that means, is it referring to the fact that they are more like normal headphones?
From what I understood with what you are saying, the headphones, are only necessary when recording a vocal track with music from the guitar or piano that has already been recorded, otherwise, we must use the speakers. Can you please tell me what you mean by cans?
I would like to ask, the proper acoustic of the room for the purpose of music production, is only necessary when you are recording a vocal track from a microphone right? Say for example recording, through the audio/midi interface, guitar or piano, you do not need an acoustic room, is that correct? and that you only need it for recording vocals? This has been my understanding, although I could be wrong.This is the microphone I ordered: Lewitt LCT 440 Pure (microphone)
Thank you once again, for your help, Sir.
 
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The Lewitt mic gets an excellent write up in Sound on Sound. Good choice.

"Cans" Sorry! slang term for headphones. 'Open backed means the casing/cup allows sound in and out of the 'cans' and therefore they give little or no reduction to external noise (or indeed your backing track) Plus of course they can be most annoying to others! Their saving grace is that the open design lends itself better to producing a resonance free sound and greater fidelity.
Closed phones reduce noise ingress and egress but tend to be of lesser sound quality. However that does not really matter if they are being used merely to keep your timing with the backing (Google 'click track').

You need your 'studio' treated for everything! The monitors, excellent though they are, will not give of their best in a room with 'colouration' and reflections. The former is the sum of all the resonant modes in the room which gives it a certain 'tone', almost always a bad one. Our ears compensate for this so we do not notice it live (analogy here with colour temperature if you know about photography/video. White Balance?)

"Neutral" is the opposite (sort of) of colour. Monitors especially need to be neutral so they add nothing of their own sound to that reproduced. "Accurate" would be another term. One of the most demanding sounds to reproduce accurately is male speech. If you can, download some chat from BBC Radio3, just about the best examples you will find. NB get the levels right! People tend to play things too loudly and that chucks a spanner into the works*

You might think that microphones also need to be accurate? Well, up to a point. One does not want gross accentuation of any part of the frequency band but a mild lift at say 4kHz can add 'air' and brightness. That Lewitt has both neutrality AND brightness!

Check out sos.com and look for their 'Studio SOS articles'

*I don't wish to be rude but you do not seem 'hard up'? Can I therefore suggest you buy a Sound Level Meter? $20-30 will get you something quite usable but make sure it has a 'C' weighting facility. No matter if it is a fixed C weighting. Especially for starting up it is very useful to have an idea of the loudness of things. One other very good idea is to 'calibrate' those Adams. Look it up. This recording game is mired in jargon and technicalities. Somewhere at SoS.com there is a glossary. Might be one here at HR?

BTW. I am yet to have knelt before HRH (be a bugger getting up again!) so just Dave!
 
The Lewitt mic gets an excellent write up in Sound on Sound. Good choice.

"Cans" Sorry! slang term for headphones. 'Open backed means the casing/cup allows sound in and out of the 'cans' and therefore they give little or no reduction to external noise (or indeed your backing track) Plus of course they can be most annoying to others! Their saving grace is that the open design lends itself better to producing a resonance free sound and greater fidelity.
Closed phones reduce noise ingress and egress but tend to be of lesser sound quality. However that does not really matter if they are being used merely to keep your timing with the backing (Google 'click track').

You need your 'studio' treated for everything! The monitors, excellent though they are, will not give of their best in a room with 'colouration' and reflections. The former is the sum of all the resonant modes in the room which gives it a certain 'tone', almost always a bad one. Our ears compensate for this so we do not notice it live (analogy here with colour temperature if you know about photography/video. White Balance?)

"Neutral" is the opposite (sort of) of colour. Monitors especially need to be neutral so they add nothing of their own sound to that reproduced. "Accurate" would be another term. One of the most demanding sounds to reproduce accurately is male speech. If you can, download some chat from BBC Radio3, just about the best examples you will find. NB get the levels right! People tend to play things too loudly and that chucks a spanner into the works*

You might think that microphones also need to be accurate? Well, up to a point. One does not want gross accentuation of any part of the frequency band but a mild lift at say 4kHz can add 'air' and brightness. That Lewitt has both neutrality AND brightness!

Check out sos.com and look for their 'Studio SOS articles'

*I don't wish to be rude but you do not seem 'hard up'? Can I therefore suggest you buy a Sound Level Meter? $20-30 will get you something quite usable but make sure it has a 'C' weighting facility. No matter if it is a fixed C weighting. Especially for starting up it is very useful to have an idea of the loudness of things. One other very good idea is to 'calibrate' those Adams. Look it up. This recording game is mired in jargon and technicalities. Somewhere at SoS.com there is a glossary. Might be one here at HR?

BTW. I am yet to have knelt before HRH (be a bugger getting up again!) so just Dave!
Thanks again for the reply Dave. Yes, there is indeed a whole lot of technical jargon. You mentioned that the headphones in question are closed and more useful than open types but then you say later that the open back create a resonance free sound and greater fidelity and that the closed are of a lesser sound quality. I am a bit confused about this. When you speak about neutral with regard to monitors, I was referring to the headphones in question about them being neutral, as I read about them.
I am not sure what you mean by the room having colouration and reflections, I will look into this, as well as to calibrate the Adams. I also don't know how to use a sound level meter.
You mentioned before a way of recording vocals with your microphone - the classic set up for a mic in a bedroom - but do you need to cover the walls with that stuff they use to absorb sound (if that is correct?) in music studios?
I would also like to ask if going through all this hassle with making a studio refers only to the aspect of recording with a microphone, for instance, vocals. What about when you are recording with an electric guitar, or a synthesiser/stage piano, by and through the audio/midi interface, do you still need that stuff, or does it go just straight through into the computer and you hear it all through the monitors. I guess I am asking, if all of this, refers solely to recording with a microphone, like vocals.
thanks again, Dave.
 
Hi Dark Light923.........we understand that those new to this "world" of recording will have questions....plenty of them. So....keep asking them.......and stay here and read the various sections of this forum. I can't think of a better place for you to learn the basics....and more.

Closed headphones.........less noise from the outside gets in.....and gets out. Picture yourself standing close to a mic....recording a vocal......while listening to the music. With closed headphones you're able to keep the sound from your headphones (cans) from leaking into the mic and getting recorded.........which sounds terrible.

Open headphones........more noise from the outside gets in....so not great in noisy environments.......but open "cans" normally are more accurate sounding than closed cans. This allows you to "mix" better.........that's when you're playing back what's been recorded and making adjustments to volume levels and the sound overall.

Room coloration.......as an example......think of how an empty room has more "echo" than a room with furniture. Think of how a room with tile floors sounds more "bright" or "lively" than a room with carpets. Those are just two examples to give you the idea that everything about a room and what's in it affects your recordings done with a mic. It does not affect anything recorded any other way......except.........that......it DOES affect how your monitor speakers sound when you're listening to what you've recorded. That's VERY important.

So...room treatment......this is all about doing things to diminish the effect of your room. You'll need to do some trial and error in this regard......and it's a good idea if you let us hear some of your early recordings and give us good detail about your room so we can give you some advice.

I know.....this can sound both overwhelming and trivial at the same time. Many newcomers wonder if this stuff is really important. Yes...it is and how important it is depends a lot on what you record and how you do it....etc....etc. So....stay here and learn.

We can get you through the early stages so you can get to the stage where you are having lots of fun.

Mick
 
Yes, sorry it was headphones you referred to WRT "neutral". I think I shall get little argument in saying that very few headphones are neutral, at least in the way that VERY good monitors can be. If nothing else, each persons ear cavity is a different, complex shape and that will colour even the even 'perfect' cans (if they exist?)

To a similar extent a room will colour the sound from speakers, ever blown into a bottle? Put a shell to Mk1 lug? Any enclosed space will have several resonant modes and we can only attempt to control the worst of them. Fortunately we have 'Nearfield Monitoring'!

The theory is that at a mtr of so from your ear the sound from each speaker will arrive much sooner than the reverberation, colour, in the room and will give you at least fighting chance to get a decent stereo image (more reading there!) However NM will not help much with the bumps and dips you get in small rooms in the bass. Traps can help but you can also check bass on headphones. As I said, learn how the system, room and speakers sounds on good commercial tracks.

Yes, you only need the 'duvet trick' when using a mic but you still need room treatment to get good monitoring. Generally you want the room as dead as possible for microphone recording because small, domestic spaces never sound good. All DAWs have some form of reverb effect you can add but be sparing with it!
Yes, DI'ed stuff and MIDI is exempt.

Sound level meter? Example: I said repro'ed speech often gets played too loudly? So, set the meter up between your monitors. Now try to recite 'Mary' in as normal a voice as you can manage and note the levels on the meter. Now move meter to your seat and play the Beeb's clip and adjust the level to match as best you can the levels you generated. You will I am sure think the volume a bit on the low side? Don't be too pikky, speech is a very spiky signal but generally comes out at around 70dB C at a mtr from gob.

Have you got a mate/significant other? All this messing with gear is much easier and more fun with two.

Dave. (Sorry Mick. I see you got in while this old valve jockey was still a'thinkin!)
 
Hi Dark Light923.........we understand that those new to this "world" of recording will have questions....plenty of them. So....keep asking them.......and stay here and read the various sections of this forum. I can't think of a better place for you to learn the basics....and more.

Closed headphones.........less noise from the outside gets in.....and gets out. Picture yourself standing close to a mic....recording a vocal......while listening to the music. With closed headphones you're able to keep the sound from your headphones (cans) from leaking into the mic and getting recorded.........which sounds terrible.

Open headphones........more noise from the outside gets in....so not great in noisy environments.......but open "cans" normally are more accurate sounding than closed cans. This allows you to "mix" better.........that's when you're playing back what's been recorded and making adjustments to volume levels and the sound overall.

Room coloration.......as an example......think of how an empty room has more "echo" than a room with furniture. Think of how a room with tile floors sounds more "bright" or "lively" than a room with carpets. Those are just two examples to give you the idea that everything about a room and what's in it affects your recordings done with a mic. It does not affect anything recorded any other way......except.........that......it DOES affect how your monitor speakers sound when you're listening to what you've recorded. That's VERY important.

So...room treatment......this is all about doing things to diminish the effect of your room. You'll need to do some trial and error in this regard......and it's a good idea if you let us hear some of your early recordings and give us good detail about your room so we can give you some advice.

I know.....this can sound both overwhelming and trivial at the same time. Many newcomers wonder if this stuff is really important. Yes...it is and how important it is depends a lot on what you record and how you do it....etc....etc. So....stay here and learn.

We can get you through the early stages so you can get to the stage where you are having lots of fun.

Mick
Thank you for the helpful reply, Mick. So it seems that closed and open headphones have their advantages and disadvantages - seeing that the with closed microphones you can record vocals a lot better and then the open headphones that are more accurate sounding and can mix better with. Well, it seems, according to Dave's help, they are of the closed type, the headphones I ordered, without knowing all of this.
So what I've gathered, the less things are in the room, the better for the sound when producing music. Well, with regard to the bedroom I intend on starting producing music, I will take everything out, most notably, the bed and just leave a sofa, for me to rest when doing this work, as well as to play the guitar in the room. Also, the room has tiles. I will look into what you said about room treatment, can you point me in the right direction? Thanks again so much.
 
Yes, sorry it was headphones you referred to WRT "neutral". I think I shall get little argument in saying that very few headphones are neutral, at least in the way that VERY good monitors can be. If nothing else, each persons ear cavity is a different, complex shape and that will colour even the even 'perfect' cans (if they exist?)

To a similar extent a room will colour the sound from speakers, ever blown into a bottle? Put a shell to Mk1 lug? Any enclosed space will have several resonant modes and we can only attempt to control the worst of them. Fortunately we have 'Nearfield Monitoring'!

The theory is that at a mtr of so from your ear the sound from each speaker will arrive much sooner than the reverberation, colour, in the room and will give you at least fighting chance to get a decent stereo image (more reading there!) However NM will not help much with the bumps and dips you get in small rooms in the bass. Traps can help but you can also check bass on headphones. As I said, learn how the system, room and speakers sounds on good commercial tracks.

Yes, you only need the 'duvet trick' when using a mic but you still need room treatment to get good monitoring. Generally you want the room as dead as possible for microphone recording because small, domestic spaces never sound good. All DAWs have some form of reverb effect you can add but be sparing with it!
Yes, DI'ed stuff and MIDI is exempt.

Sound level meter? Example: I said repro'ed speech often gets played too loudly? So, set the meter up between your monitors. Now try to recite 'Mary' in as normal a voice as you can manage and note the levels on the meter. Now move meter to your seat and play the Beeb's clip and adjust the level to match as best you can the levels you generated. You will I am sure think the volume a bit on the low side? Don't be too pikky, speech is a very spiky signal but generally comes out at around 70dB C at a mtr from gob.

Have you got a mate/significant other? All this messing with gear is much easier and more fun with two.

Dave. (Sorry Mick. I see you got in while this old valve jockey was still a'thinkin!)
Thank you once again Dave. Again, there is alot of stuff that you are saying that is foreign to me. When you speak of room treatment, to get good monitoring, insofar as how the speakers sound when playing your music, how do you get the room as dead as possible? In this context, what do you mean by dead? I need to look into room treatment........
 
Dark Light923.......we're not saying that the less things in the room the better. As a rule.......there is no rule (mostly). We're basically saying that you need to see how your room acts on your recorded sound and how it affects listening to your monitors. The bed may actually help you.......or not....but to start with.....make the room functional for your recording setup. That's means make sure you have space to do what you need to.....a desk / table for your equipment and speakers.......etc....etc. Where you place those items is also important.

As for room treatment......well.......there is LOTS of info here and other places on line........but to be honest.......our best advice can only be given after you tell us much more about your room. Dimensions......windows.....doors.......floors........ceilings......etc. Pics of your room once you're started will also be of great help to us. And........most of all......a few clips of recordings by mic will also help us. BTW....don't go and order "sound absorbing" things that you may see in pics or hear about. It's easy to see pics of studios and the like and think that's what you need. Wait until we can help.

And remember.......all of this is not really as complicated as it sounds. Before you even think about any of this.......get your setup going and get familiar with how it works.
 
Dark Light923.......we're not saying that the less things in the room the better. As a rule.......there is no rule (mostly). We're basically saying that you need to see how your room acts on your recorded sound and how it affects listening to your monitors. The bed may actually help you.......or not....but to start with.....make the room functional for your recording setup. That's means make sure you have space to do what you need to.....a desk / table for your equipment and speakers.......etc....etc. Where you place those items is also important.

As for room treatment......well.......there is LOTS of info here and other places on line........but to be honest.......our best advice can only be given after you tell us much more about your room. Dimensions......windows.....doors.......floors........ceilings......etc. Pics of your room once you're started will also be of great help to us. And........most of all......a few clips of recordings by mic will also help us. BTW....don't go and order "sound absorbing" things that you may see in pics or hear about. It's easy to see pics of studios and the like and think that's what you need. Wait until we can help.

And remember.......all of this is not really as complicated as it sounds. Before you even think about any of this.......get your setup going and get familiar with how it works.
Well thank you so much. I will do everything you said. I am just waiting for the stuff I ordered to arrive. You guys really are so helpful and kind. thank you!
 
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