40 years out of date

Scifictioneer

New member
Hi

About three and a half decades ago I was at the forefront of technology with home recording, owning several analogue synthesisers, a bass sequencer and a drum machine. I recorded these, along with guitar and vocals onto a tascam 244 portastudio. Back then I was trying to acheive a recording contact but these days coming up to an early retirement, I want to dip back into this world. The problem I have is things have moved on considerably and I'm trying to navigate the minefield of home recording. Do I go for the same set up as before with drum machines ect and a portastudio. Do I plump for a synthesiser workstation or a DAW. I have downloaded a DAW free application and it looks like I need a degree to get to grip with it. Advice and suggestions would be appreciated.
 
The main thing to consider is budget. It will affect every decision you need to make.

There are lots of DAWs to look at, but honestly that is the way to go. There is quite a learning curve on whichever you choose, but they are starting to all blend together as they pick up each others' fortes. I personally use Reason, and love the visual and hands on feel. I could write a book, but others could with FL, Mixcraft, Cakewalk, Pro Tools, Bitwig, etc. This site will give you a bit of a rundown on the majors. The best DAWs 2021: the best digital audio workstations for PC and Mac | MusicRadar but is definitely not all-inclusive. Most DAWs come complete with enough VST synths to make the nerds smile (which is another area where Reason shines). AFA drum machines, there are usually some built in to the DAW and then you have the BFD/Slate/EZD/AD/SD ilk that gives you a virtual drumset with lots of options...
Reaper is amazing for budget minded people... It's HUGE. It will do anything. It comes with a very small price tag. But it comes with a large learning curve, which I've worked with and found solutions to problems, but others could give you a lot better advice on that one.

Still, AFA where a budget will go you need to realize a good recording room is the most important thing. If you're going to mic stuff like vocals and amps and acoustic guitars, it needs treatment. REW and some mode calculations can get you through those with some advice from pros (or semi-pros) here and elsewhere on how to eliminate modes in your rooms...I'm trying to make it sound easy, and it can be in the right room. But acoustic treatment is not inexpensive depending on how far you want to go. A good set of bass traps in the corners is a really good start, but also ceiling clouds and reflection point absorbers, as well as diffusers will make a huge difference in any room over 4k cubic feet (below that it gets difficult). There are ways around it, like burning cd's or mp3s to play in your car to hear what's actually happening, but a good room goes a long way.

A computer to run the DAW and VSTs. Both Mac and PC (Microsoft/Linux based...yeah, guys. I know that macs are PCs, too but it's a standard way of delineating.) are viable, again, depending on your budget and long-term needs. Some sort of UPS and off computer storage (cloud or USB) for those inevitable moments when Light and Power let you down or your system crashes...

Add an interface and some nice monitors and you're in the business. That's another big topic...but bear in mind there are basically three layers of monitors and interfaces: 1) Hobbyist - small, semi-inexpensive all with pros and cons, fans and detractors; 2) Serious - mid line with minor improvements over the Hobbyist line; and Elite - mostly uncompromising in specs (and usually price).

Total cost can run from well under a thousand if you just want to throw up some towels and blankets for absorption, scour the pawn shops for equipment, engineer and DIY a bunch of stuff yourself, and kick some music out... to millions to design and build a professional studio.

There are a lot of things to cover, and I'm trying in my own meandering sort of way to hit the major points. Maybe a good starting point would be to pick up a book on recording studio and/or space design. Gervais/Pohlman have fairly inexpensive versions. Newell's is more highly acclaimed, but is fairly expensive. Understand John Brandt is about to release his book as well and I have no doubt it will be superior, but probably in the expensive category. That good old budget thing rears its ugly head again...

Anyway, lots to consider. But start with a DAW. There are lots of them out there and most will give you a free trial version that is either limited in function or time. Find a couple that you like the look and feel of and then begin seriously tweaking with the few to figure out what you like and don't like. I went through Cakewalk/Sonar, Reaper and Reason before ultimately settling on Reason, so it's not like you have to decide immediately either. Just bear in mind as age creeps in that you'll start to lose hearing, tinnitus will start to be your enemy, etc. etc. I do very little in my studio anymore except practice and occasionally jot down an idea for a song.

Maybe for me a workstation that you just turn on and go would be better...
 
Hi

About three and a half decades ago I was at the forefront of technology with home recording, owning several analogue synthesisers, a bass sequencer and a drum machine. I recorded these, along with guitar and vocals onto a tascam 244 portastudio. Back then I was trying to acheive a recording contact but these days coming up to an early retirement, I want to dip back into this world. The problem I have is things have moved on considerably and I'm trying to navigate the minefield of home recording. Do I go for the same set up as before with drum machines ect and a portastudio. Do I plump for a synthesiser workstation or a DAW. I have downloaded a DAW free application and it looks like I need a degree to get to grip with it. Advice and suggestions would be appreciated.

Hi Sci' and welcome. If Ken hasn't scared you off I would like to offer some thoughts? Budget yes, we need to know but you can really start with just 4 things. A computer (and almost anything 5 yrs old or less that can run W10 will do) a DAW and Reaper is as good as most and a pair of monitor speakers. Yes, you could use headphones and definitely get a pair but since you are 'old school' I am betting you will want to hear stuff 'in the room'?

You also of course need an Audio Interface and this is where advising gets tricky. You mentioned a raft of instruments, getting all those into the PC will need a shed of inputs (or not! We don't know what you MO will be. Do you?) However, one parameter is very important when deailng with synths etc running in DAWs. Latency, this is the delay between you hitting a key and hearing the note. In a well managed system with a good AI and MOST importantly one with good drivers, latency will be low enough not to bother you. AFAICT low latency AI start at around $150 go cheaper and you will be driven mad.

Yes, your room might need some treatment but you won't know until you try.

Bottom line: We need VASTLY more information chap.

Dave.
 
The main thing to consider is budget. It will affect every decision you need to make.

There are lots of DAWs to look at, but honestly that is the way to go. There is quite a learning curve on whichever you choose, but they are starting to all blend together as they pick up each others' fortes. I personally use Reason, and love the visual and hands on feel. I could write a book, but others could with FL, Mixcraft, Cakewalk, Pro Tools, Bitwig, etc. This site will give you a bit of a rundown on the majors. The best DAWs 2021: the best digital audio workstations for PC and Mac | MusicRadar but is definitely not all-inclusive. Most DAWs come complete with enough VST synths to make the nerds smile (which is another area where Reason shines). AFA drum machines, there are usually some built in to the DAW and then you have the BFD/Slate/EZD/AD/SD ilk that gives you a virtual drumset with lots of options...
Reaper is amazing for budget minded people... It's HUGE. It will do anything. It comes with a very small price tag. But it comes with a large learning curve, which I've worked with and found solutions to problems, but others could give you a lot better advice on that one.

Still, AFA where a budget will go you need to realize a good recording room is the most important thing. If you're going to mic stuff like vocals and amps and acoustic guitars, it needs treatment. REW and some mode calculations can get you through those with some advice from pros (or semi-pros) here and elsewhere on how to eliminate modes in your rooms...I'm trying to make it sound easy, and it can be in the right room. But acoustic treatment is not inexpensive depending on how far you want to go. A good set of bass traps in the corners is a really good start, but also ceiling clouds and reflection point absorbers, as well as diffusers will make a huge difference in any room over 4k cubic feet (below that it gets difficult). There are ways around it, like burning cd's or mp3s to play in your car to hear what's actually happening, but a good room goes a long way.

A computer to run the DAW and VSTs. Both Mac and PC (Microsoft/Linux based...yeah, guys. I know that macs are PCs, too but it's a standard way of delineating.) are viable, again, depending on your budget and long-term needs. Some sort of UPS and off computer storage (cloud or USB) for those inevitable moments when Light and Power let you down or your system crashes...

Add an interface and some nice monitors and you're in the business. That's another big topic...but bear in mind there are basically three layers of monitors and interfaces: 1) Hobbyist - small, semi-inexpensive all with pros and cons, fans and detractors; 2) Serious - mid line with minor improvements over the Hobbyist line; and Elite - mostly uncompromising in specs (and usually price).

Total cost can run from well under a thousand if you just want to throw up some towels and blankets for absorption, scour the pawn shops for equipment, engineer and DIY a bunch of stuff yourself, and kick some music out... to millions to design and build a professional studio.

There are a lot of things to cover, and I'm trying in my own meandering sort of way to hit the major points. Maybe a good starting point would be to pick up a book on recording studio and/or space design. Gervais/Pohlman have fairly inexpensive versions. Newell's is more highly acclaimed, but is fairly expensive. Understand John Brandt is about to release his book as well and I have no doubt it will be superior, but probably in the expensive category. That good old budget thing rears its ugly head again...

Anyway, lots to consider. But start with a DAW. There are lots of them out there and most will give you a free trial version that is either limited in function or time. Find a couple that you like the look and feel of and then begin seriously tweaking with the few to figure out what you like and don't like. I went through Cakewalk/Sonar, Reaper and Reason before ultimately settling on Reason, so it's not like you have to decide immediately either. Just bear in mind as age creeps in that you'll start to lose hearing, tinnitus will start to be your enemy, etc. etc. I do very little in my studio anymore except practice and occasionally jot down an idea for a song.

Maybe for me a workstation that you just turn on and go would be better...

Hey, a fellow Reason user! There are dozens of us! Dozens!
 
For the software side most of us here are Reaperist. It is the coolest, bad ass, easy to get started getting tracks down but with the power and flexibility to go as deep as one can possibly go in tricks and voodoo. And a ton of videos and user groups to get help, shine a light down the rabbit hole..

As far as interfaces go I'm personally a Behringer fan going from a 4 track to now the XR-18 and never looking back..that is after a litany of different much more expensive interfaces 15-20 years ago.

As far as computers...a 5 year old or newer iMac or PC with i-5 / i-7 processor 32 plus gigs of ram and a SSD hard drive and you're on your way to multi track digital recording nirvana..

Good luck there are so many forums on the internets / Facebook and instructionals on Youtube it is a heck of a lot easier than it was 20 years ago...
 
Scifictioneer......go DAW. Your previous experience with the Tascam and some knowledge of the "lingo" and how tracks are created and mixed...etc...etc...will actually help you more than you think. As others have said..Reaper is great. I use it.

Luckily.....also unlike 40 years ago....you have YouTube and thousands of step by step tutorials on how to get started and how to use Reaper. Getting started can seem daunting.....but it's not really. One foot in front of the other and.....soon enough....you'll be able to equal and surpass the recording ability you had with you Tascam. We're here to help you!

Mick
 
My collection of old synths going back to the 80s have been totally replaced by VSTis. I cannot imagine going back - BUT - most of what you knew back then is radically different.

I guess it goes to you - can you do computers? If you can, then it's like learning photoshop, or a video editing platform. Most of the basics regarding levels, eq and stuff like that will be familiar but much of the bottlenecks of old recording have been solved. Virtually everything is editable. Most parameters on a synth can be remembered, recalled and edited continuously - not just pitchbend and modulation, but every knob and button too.

It's a big project, but all the popular DAWs do similar things, often in similar ways - and switching between them can be a pain - but only because menus are different, the way things are done is different, but the basics are the same. Most people who, like above, are happy with Reaper, will stay with it because the next reaper is like the old reaper with extras. You get comfy once you get the basics in. I'm a cubase user, since the old black and white days on an Atari 520. Many screens have been working the same way for 25 years!

Let nobody tell you theirs is best. It is simply best for them. Most have a trial - limited features or limited time. Before you commit - try a few. Some you will hate because progress is slow due to the fit not being good with you. If you can get something connected and record it and maybe add some reverb WITHOUT using help files or YouTube then it works the way your brain does. Thats will help you no end. The learning curve is steep. Persevere. It's really worth it. Also - oddly - do not take other people's advice too seriously because I have discovered that almost everyone I meet who has Cubase uses it differently from me. They use different features, have it looking different and it's because all the DAWs let you work in your own way. There are few standards - as an example, I still use the score editor a lot. I don't use the embedded editors that can be on the same screen - I still use separate ones. Steinberg who make Cubase clearly think I should do it this new way, but I don't!

The effort will be hard, but suddenly, your lights go on and you're done!
 
To start with is the interface. I think the other parts fall into place rather easy. Going back to TAE's comments, DAWs are largely the same, just a matter of workflow, I too am a fan of Reaper but use Ableton. Great live software, but rather expensive if just doing straight recording. Computers, as stated, Mac or PC, something with a little meat, i5/i7 RAM if I would say 8 will get you there, 16 is better.

The interface is important for several reasons. If you still have your old school synths, the MIDI with a DIN on the interface. Basic MIDI hasn't changed since the 80's. I am still using a controller, PC100 I purchased in 89. But if you want your old synth sounds, then you will want maybe a couple of analog inputs for the sounds. You also want something with ASIO drivers (keeps the lag/delay down if recording and monitoring with in the box effects).

Give us a little more information on your connection needs, we can guide you through picking an interface, then you can build from there, get your computer, HP's, monitors, etc. Then you will be setup up and ready to beat your head against the wall with recording, but you won't question your base hardware setup.
 
I can relate! I recently bit the bullet and went from 4track cassette recording to a DAW with all the trimmings, and I’m so happy I did it. I am in my 70s and was nervous about learning all that new software. I really liked (loved, actually) my Tascam 424 with real knobs!

The first few weeks were shaky as I learned the DAW. But, the saving Grace is YOUTUBE! Armed with YouTube, any question or puzzle I had was quickly answered by at least a few YouTube videos! For the first couple weeks I was back and forth between the DAW and YouTube a million times. I’m still stunned at the depth and Quality of expertise fingertips!

I went with a new iMac and Logic Pro, and I’m having a ball. I have finished my first recording and I feel almost like I’m over the biggest hump of the learning curve. The capability of these DAWs is jaw dropping.

Gods luck whichever way you go. If Geezer like me can mark it, any one can!
 
Oh boy! An oldster like me.

3.5 decades, huh? Why... you mighta owned a STRING MACHINE.:thumbs up:

Okay, this is not hard.

1. Determine your budget. Anything from "get by" to "get with it" is available. The tech is mature. The prices are full spectrum. Any Craigslist computer with a USB port will do all you could ever have imagined from a PortaStudio (from which I too have "released" some compositions). No need for top flight anything unless that is your desire.

2. Determine what you wanna explore. Do you wish to record as you once did? Or you could always "jam" (it's a new and trendy thing for the dance/rave types that has on-occasion been a guilty pleasure of mine). Do you wanna jump right back into "analogue synthesizers"? or do you wanna explore Modular? or do you care? The average software package has VST synths (that run onscreen in your sequencer) that FAR outpace anything you could have owned back then.

With answers to 1 and 2 - if you can - you can start to accumulate (because you're never done... but I don' have to tell you that).

Restating the obvious, you'll need a monitor system of some kind. That's not any substantial change from long ago. Pre-amps, amps, and speaks. If you go computer, you'll need input and output. You could use the onboard i/o in 1/8" jacks if you wanted. It's every bit as good as a PortaStudio ever was. More probably, set aside a C-note for "an interface" which takes i/o audio and midi and converts it to USB i/o for the computer. Lots of them. All good. All prices. Just depends on how many of what you want simultaneously.

Get a keyboard. That's where you hearken from. You can get a keyboard controller just like they had 35 years ago or you can get a nice synth. Your choice. Your budget. It will have midi and very probably USB. Even some of the cheapest plastic 'personal keyboards' will shock and amaze in sound compared to back-in-the-day.

You don't HAVE to go with a computer. You don't even have to have a keyboard - check into Launchpad - but this approach is popular for a host of reasons, especially with traditionalists.

Computer literacy is gonna be your best bet. Some free tips.
1. Your music computer is for MUSIC. One of the big confusions for novices is trying to do everything, from surfing to recipes to music on the same computer. It's easier and even more dependable to have a dedicated platform. Long ago when computers were expensive, this was a bit of a luxury. Today, when they're surplussed by the pound, it's easy.

2. I've been through several titles but am settling in on Reaper. Every title will do more than you can imagine. But no one comes close on bang/buck to Reaper. No matter the title, you will, sooner or later, like some things and dislike others. YouTube is your friend. Any title you've heard-of will have a hundred tutorial videos available -- something that was hard to come by 35 years ago.

3. If your music computer is just for music, then being online is not a big deal. You got no bank info, etc, exposed. So you can download any of a hundred freebie VST synths for everything old and new and click away for weeks on sounds familiar and not. You haven't spent a dime except bandwidth and when you find one you like, go to your regular online computer and throw the guy a fiver his troubles. That's on the cheap. Similarly, you can download name-brand synths (like Korg or Moog) and have their sounds for pennies compared to what you used to spend. It's really a big pond out there.

I was gonna be brief. Oops.
 
I'll just throw this into the ring? You can et a NINTEY day free trial of Ableton Live and the style might suit you? It's a 1,5 download but installation is simple as is registration.

Look for a YT with Rachel K Collier.

Dave.
 
Hi!

I moved from a Tascam DP24 to Ableton Live last year. Ableton because other band members had it. It's wonderful, especially if you want to create on your own. There are so many tools (I bought suite).

Getting started isn't difficult, thanks to the Internet. For Ableton there's a channel called Collective Intelligence. The guy takes you through tracking a song from the start. It's EDM, so using loops rather than recording, but it was a good starting point.

Jump in. Wish I'd done it years ago. Also, you'll find you can do so much more. Production is such an art, as well as a science, do it'll certainly keep you out of trouble when you retire.

All the best
 
The thing for us oldies is that we always want to do the same things we did when we first started. I still record without using many of the features Cubase can happily do. My younger friend uses Cubase and when he sends me things when I open them I spend ages working out why he has over a hundred tracks - but if he wants a guitar twang in bar 96, it gets it's own track - he seems to never use them again, because Cubase doesn't care. me, I still have a track named guitar - and the only time I have two is when they have to play at the same time. He has his set so that when he has a section set to rcycle - say bar 20 to 24 it records on a new track each time. So if he's trying to nail a guitar solo - he doesn't have to keep stopping, he just plays and plays - one of them will be perfect, and if it's not, you just make one good one from the twelve you just recorded! I play the entire thing over and over till I get it right. Same software - very different ways to use it!
 
The thing for us oldies is that we always want to do the same things we did when we first started. I still record without using many of the features Cubase can happily do. My younger friend uses Cubase and when he sends me things when I open them I spend ages working out why he has over a hundred tracks - but if he wants a guitar twang in bar 96, it gets it's own track - he seems to never use them again, because Cubase doesn't care. me, I still have a track named guitar - and the only time I have two is when they have to play at the same time. He has his set so that when he has a section set to rcycle - say bar 20 to 24 it records on a new track each time. So if he's trying to nail a guitar solo - he doesn't have to keep stopping, he just plays and plays - one of them will be perfect, and if it's not, you just make one good one from the twelve you just recorded! I play the entire thing over and over till I get it right. Same software - very different ways to use it!

Geez Rob! You are spot on about us 'conservative' (samall c ) older folk. Have a look at Rachel K's videos, she flies around Ableton like demented cyborg. TBH I could not even see the boxes in the tracks on a 15.6" lappy screen. I have a destop in my 'stoodio' with a 22" screen I can put my nose against.

Dave.
 
Geez Rob! You are spot on about us 'conservative' (samall c ) older folk. Have a look at Rachel K's videos, she flies around Ableton like demented cyborg. TBH I could not even see the boxes in the tracks on a 15.6" lappy screen. I have a destop in my 'stoodio' with a 22" screen I can put my nose against.

Dave.

I have been using Ableton now for about 10 years. However, I use it with two screens. I have used some of its grid features (clips/scenes) and it is pretty cool. But for me it is somewhat of a waste as I don't really use it for what it was designed for.

The lite version is very crippled, the full suite version is about $500-700, upgrades cost about $200, unless you are going to use it as intended, I think Reaper or something like it and use the extra money for plugins. If I were not already so deep into it, I would change, but change is so hard ;)
 
I have been using Ableton now for about 10 years. However, I use it with two screens. I have used some of its grid features (clips/scenes) and it is pretty cool. But for me it is somewhat of a waste as I don't really use it for what it was designed for.

The lite version is very crippled, the full suite version is about $500-700, upgrades cost about $200, unless you are going to use it as intended, I think Reaper or something like it and use the extra money for plugins. If I were not already so deep into it, I would change, but change is so hard ;)

My point about the dinky boxes is more to do with my eyesight than the DAW. I have trouble typing these days (as I am sure many of you can see!) Yes, I could expand the text to 200% but, a) that means even MORE scrolling and b) I know of no way to 'lock in' the expansion?

AFAIK the 90 day download (1.5 GIGS another typo!) is the full fat version?

Dave.
 
My point about the dinky boxes is more to do with my eyesight than the DAW. I have trouble typing these days (as I am sure many of you can see!) Yes, I could expand the text to 200% but, a) that means even MORE scrolling and b) I know of no way to 'lock in' the expansion?

AFAIK the 90 day download (1.5 GIGS another typo!) is the full fat version?

Dave.

The 90 day probably is full version, but the way that software is designed, 90 days you will be lucky to get a recording. I am not saying it is not good software, it just takes a different approach. After 90 days, well, now you have to decide if you want to shell out $500+.

Now, in arrangement view, it is a traditional DAW, which is where I stay mostly. Session view is for using clips to launch different at different intervals and sequences, with a controller, this is where it really is great for live performances as it is non-linear.

Being a user of the software, I would say, if you are just looking for a traditional typical recording software, I would start somewhere else. If you are looking for something that can do live work or DJ style, then I don't think there is better software.
 
Reaper looks good on my 22" PC monitor screen, but that's only when I'm sitting at the desk with my head about 20" from it. When I'm tracking and standing in the middle of the room it's all a blur - even when I reach "into" it at arm's length to stop/start.

My main TV is a 28" flat LCD and the lower left corner of the screen has developed a purpleish tint, so I'm replacing it with a similar-sized smart TV with better resolution. Then I'll move the old unit into my studio here and use that for my music PC monitor. It's slightly better resolution over my current PC monitor and the screen's discoloration won't matter.. until the whole thing craps out. My current PC monitor will move to my yet to be aquired second PC.
 
you mighta owned a STRING MACHINE.:thumbs up:
.

LOL....I did .... one of the first ones bought in LA in late 1973

Elka 610 string ensemble....

Used in this one....

Sure wish I could get that little model in the video for my office...
 
The thing for us oldies is that we always want to do the same things we did when we first started
So true. When I used to first engage in the analogue vs digital wars, I was like Switzerland, neutral, because though I'd gone over to the dark side of digital, my methodology was pretty much as it was on an analogue portastudio, but with some time saving freedoms. I have long felt that there really was little that could be done digitally that couldn't be analogically {and if that isn't even a word, it is now ! :cool:}, just that tape stuff took ages in comparison.
I use a 12 track DAW and the thought of using a 100 tracks with probably 86 of them just having a guitar twang in one place or one hit of a triangle at the start of the third pre~chorus fills me with both horror and rage. But then, I'm the same with my e-mail inbox. I clear it daily whereas my wife has 800 in hers, some stretching back years. I'm that spare rib.
 
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