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Thread: 1W vs 15W??

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post
    It's kinda funny that you use that "subjective" line as a way to excuse yourself (or anyone for that matter) from ever agreeing that any one thing is better than another...but in fact, there are numerous cases where a huge majority agrees that A is better than B.
    To just keep avoiding those facts by saying..."it's all subjective"...is just an easy way to dodge the reality in many cases.

    And 100.0000% I and many other people can say very objectively that a given amp is better than another one, in many cases....and it ain't got nothing to do with "loudness".
    There are many ways to objectively measure quality...it's not all the same, and only a question of what I say or you say or someone else says.

    But let me ask you this...your comments and the way you state them remind me of someone who was banned here back in April.
    The other views you have, and the constant "it's subjective" perspective, and a negative view of buying anything expensive, saying it's all a waste...etc...etc.

    Maybe the mods can check and confirm, but you sound just like that guy, who went by the name of "mr average".
    You could be his twin brother based on your posts.
    Frankly I was already assuming this was either he or another equally clueless troll throwing out mindless useless off the subject crap.

    To the original question i am with Steeno, best thing to do is record both ways and use what you want. I record with small amps all the time but i am doing so knowing exactly what i am going for because i have done it before. Plus i have big amps if i need that sound.

    The setting I choose have nothing to do with the wattage per se, it is all about the timbre that the track requires. It might need that one watt sound in one arrangement and the higher gain sound in a different setting or part of the song.

    And yes, a tube amp will almost always sound different at differing gain levels, less so with a solid state amp IME.
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  3. #12
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  5. #13
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    The post breaks down to two questions AFAICS?

    Does a 1 watt amp sound the same as a 15 watt amp? Of course not and once you move up to 50 and 100W there is a "punch" to the sound that is excitiong and gets the adrenalin pumping! (exciting but as mentioned, keep lug exposure to the minimum)

    The second question is the one all recordists who have not or/and cannot crank a 4x12 100W rig want an answer to!
    "Can I get the tone/sound/effect of said 100W rig at a lower volume that won't destroy me follicles and wake the chavvy?"

    In practice no. But you can get close and of course, virtually no one listening to the excellent Mr May at home or in the car is getting anywhere CLOSE to the stage or studio levels. Note also that studio monitors cabable of the levels of a 50W valve powered 4x12 are quite large and bloody expensive.

    You can do 150mph in a blown 1800cc 4 cylinder jam jar but it won't feel the same as in a 400cu in V8 chevy!

    Dave.

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    Gtoboy was NOT saying that different was better. Not in any way that I read his post. The word better.......or anything similar....is not there. He goes out of his way to point out that he likes some tones and levels and amps for some things and some tones and levels and amps for other things....and all of that depends on what the track requires......in his experience. It leaves open the obvious.........that he sees "different" as neither good nor bad.....merely as options.

    To jump to your "culture of society" assumption....from his post.......is just.......well........????????
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    Not being a guitar player, I remember a little amp called a Pignose. I know it wasn't very powerful, but it had a nice sound. I guess it might still be around. I don't know if it was mostly a practice amp or if it was also for putting a microphone up to it, and then going through a PA. I guess it wasn't just small, but had a certain circuitry in it that gave it that sound. Can you tell I don't play guitar?

    But, I know many guitar players prefer a loud amp when they record. Some have an amp simulator for their tone, but it seems that nothing compares to a big Marshall stack that's micked a few inches from the speaker, at high volume. Of course, it's best to have a way to pad the cabinet so it doesn't overpower your ears, or putting the cab in another room. I have a hallway right outside my main studio that works great. Also, a little further down the hall is my kitchen. It's got a 10 foot vaulted ceiling and you can get a really nice room ambiance in there. But, keeping the neighbors calm isn't easy.
    Music ~ the International Language

  8. #16
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    The problem as I see it is simple physics and the desire of many people to circumvent the laws.

    If you asked a saxaphone or bagpipes player to come and be recorded in your bedroom, "but you must not wake the wife who's on nights!" You would be told you are mad and to "go forth and multiply".

    Similarly, we don't see many posts about recording rock drum kits in matchboxes? (s'pose you might but I never look in the drums section, might catch something!) People KNOW drums are 'king loud and you cannot turn down Mr Moon. Folks are also aware of the two basic solutions. Software and electronic kits and like all the "quiet" solutions for rock guitar they have their compromises.

    So that's it chaps. Can't run a 120dB SPL rig? Use the next best thing and WHAT that is will be debated till the bloody moo-cows come home!

    Dave.

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    I don't subscribe to the idea that you need to run a large rig at full volume to get "the sound" for recording. People forget that part of the "full Marshall stack" experience is the visceral aspect of feeling the sound as well as hearing it. Add that to the fact that your ears will adjust to constant loud sound and you've essentially got a moving target. HOWEVER a microphone doesn't have that same problem. It only hears the sound, and it doesn't change the "tone" due to fatigue. You don't need 4 EL34 when 2 will do fine. Same distortion and tonal characteristics and half the power.

    As for the OP's question of 1w vs 15w, I think the answer lies in how Laney achieves the single watt level. A lot of amps have half power switches which simply take half the power tubes out of circuit so your overdrive profile stays essentially the same. Obviously Laney isn't doing that. I suspect that Laney may somehow be lowering voltages on the tubes to drop signal levels. Otherwise they would have to limit power with some type of attenuator which is too costly for that price range. You would have to look at the schematics to see what they are doing. Within a reasonable range you can lower voltages and keep the sound somewhat similar, but if they are getting into the "starved plate" range that some preamp makers use, the sound will change quite a bit.

    Not doubt that the 15W setting will be louder. As for whether the 15w setting is "better", that's a totally subjective question.

    Lots of classic rock songs have been recorded using things like a Fender Champ (5W - single ended 6v6). Its a favorite of Joe Walsh from the James Gang days all the way through his Rocky Mountain days, and was used for some of the Layla sessions, ZZTop's LaGrange, Aerosmith's Honkin on Bobo, etc. You can drive the power tube into saturation without being at 120dB.

  10. #18
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    No, you don't NEED to be at 120dB but that is often the implication.
    The fact remains that in a "domestic" recording situation (as against a sound proofed studio) even one watt into a decent speaker will produce 95 to 100dB and that is more than loud enough to annoy people (there is also the incredibly pissing off factor of "just" hearing a guy trying to get a complicated lick just right, over and over again!)

    When son was at home we did some tests trying to get a good OD guitar sound. We finished up driving the input triode of a Dominator clone (2x EL84) with the SPEAKER output of an HT-20 (DON'T try this at home folks!)

    The result was THE most creamy, distorted "ZZ Top" grind. The speaker was a V30 and the sound level a rather anti-social 90-95dB. The neighbours would stand that for an hour or so in the daytime but not be happy much past 8pm!

    Dave.

  11. #19
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    Reading the schematic diagram, I see that inserting signal in the "HI" input a relay is energized and the signal for the output stage is taken before an attenuator. Using the "LO" input, it simply reduce gain before the output stage. In this way, listening at low level, the noise from input stages is reduced.

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