"By the way ... which one's Pink?" My band live from the basement.

K-dub

Well-known member


If folks would like to know how this was done ... ask away. Happy to answer any/all questions.

You can actually see most of the mics used -- and they're on the drums. 8 channels tracked. There is substantial bleed, accordingly.

The bass, electric guitar and 12 Str are all going in direct and were recorded through our UI24r Soundcraft unit to a USB stick drive.
 
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With that Ui24, does it record the individual tracks? And if so, how much of the channel strip is included in the recording stream to the USB stick? Just gain? EQ? Sends and inserts?

Thnx.
 
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With that Ui24, does it record the individual tracks? And if so, how much of the channel strip is included in the recording stream to the USB stick? Just gain? EQ? Sends and inserts?

Thnx.


Hey C!

Yes. The UI24r has a two bus tracking system -- which comes post effects off the mixer (stereo mix off the mains), and a multi-track function -- which comes off the preamps -- and NOTHING else (completely dry).

I used the latter option in the video above -- recording to a USB stick. There is also a USB out function that, once the drivers are loaded on your system -- will port to your computer's DAW directly. It's very versatile. We use it for both live PA and studio stuff accordingly. It's quality is studio grade.
 
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Nice job! Negative comments notwithstanding...
When you say bass, electric, and 12 str are direct, it's common for me to go bass direct. Curious to hear what you used for the other guitars direct?
Cheers,
Dave
 
Nice job! Negative comments notwithstanding...
When you say bass, electric, and 12 str are direct, it's common for me to go bass direct. Curious to hear what you used for the other guitars direct?
Cheers,
Dave

Thanks Dave!

JJ (the guitarist) has a Fender modeling amp that we port stereo out the back of. I don't mic it as I'm used to using modeling amps in my own recording, and ... in such a setting (drums in the house), they're going to completely interfere with any live mic in the room (including vox).

As such, it's cleaner (w/ more control) to keep as much out of the "bleed field" as possible. The Decemberists, a group I adore, uses direct transducers on their guitars all the time. In the case of the 12 string -- I use an ancient Bill Lawrence in the sound hole ...

Now -- if I were going to do a more "studio" recording -- I'd use mics (I prefer an AT4050 on acoustic guitar -- or -- the MXL 603s -- seen as the drum OH's) -- and record them a half mile from drum bleed ... but as you can see, we were in close proximity.

So ... there's nothing you can do about the vocal mics -- they're going to pick up everything. When mixing -- you have to edit out "everything that is not a vocal" -- and all the bleed will STILL happen in the background. Nothing you can do about it.

The drum OH's also are going to pick up the live room ... because that's what they're supposed to do. Again -- nothing you can do about it.

But the bass, git, and 12 str CAN go direct and lend more mix control.

Also -- Tom hits are infrequent -- so take out (edit) everything that is not a tom hit ... leaving ONLY the tom hit sustain ... aaaaand ... gone.

And gate the kick and snare to the point where all you hear is the kick and snare.

Simple stuff -- but it really cleans up the "live" -- and the eyes convince the ears little "treatment" has occurred.
 
Oh -- and Chili -- 20 mutli-track channels is the input of the UI24r ... I forgot to mention.
 
Oh -- and Chili -- 20 mutli-track channels is the input of the UI24r ... I forgot to mention.


Cool. I don't need 24 inputs nor $1000 price tag, so I was looking at the 16 channel version. But.... apparently it only records the 2-channel bus. That won't do.

I think the Behringer x18 mixer records individual tracks, but can't find whether it is dry off the preamps like the Ui24. That is the most important aspect to me. I don't want to add coloring to a recorded track if it is post fader.
 
Thanks Dave!

JJ (the guitarist) has a Fender modeling amp that we port stereo out the back of. I don't mic it as I'm used to using modeling amps in my own recording, and ... in such a setting (drums in the house), they're going to completely interfere with any live mic in the room (including vox).

As such, it's cleaner (w/ more control) to keep as much out of the "bleed field" as possible. The Decemberists, a group I adore, uses direct transducers on their guitars all the time. In the case of the 12 string -- I use an ancient Bill Lawrence in the sound hole ...

Now -- if I were going to do a more "studio" recording -- I'd use mics (I prefer an AT4050 on acoustic guitar -- or -- the MXL 603s -- seen as the drum OH's) -- and record them a half mile from drum bleed ... but as you can see, we were in close proximity.

So ... there's nothing you can do about the vocal mics -- they're going to pick up everything. When mixing -- you have to edit out "everything that is not a vocal" -- and all the bleed will STILL happen in the background. Nothing you can do about it.

The drum OH's also are going to pick up the live room ... because that's what they're supposed to do. Again -- nothing you can do about it.

But the bass, git, and 12 str CAN go direct and lend more mix control.

Also -- Tom hits are infrequent -- so take out (edit) everything that is not a tom hit ... leaving ONLY the tom hit sustain ... aaaaand ... gone.

And gate the kick and snare to the point where all you hear is the kick and snare.

Simple stuff -- but it really cleans up the "live" -- and the eyes convince the ears little "treatment" has occurred.

Thanks for that.
I went Kemper last year, so my guitar can go direct and I just got a Zoom Livetrak L-12 in order to get back into recording.

My lead player is running a Boogie, so maybe my Rivera Rockcrusher can get him direct.
As you say, anything to get rid of some bleed live.
Love me some live recordings.:cool:
 
Cool. I don't need 24 inputs nor $1000 price tag, so I was looking at the 16 channel version. But.... apparently it only records the 2-channel bus. That won't do.

I think the Behringer x18 mixer records individual tracks, but can't find whether it is dry off the preamps like the Ui24. That is the most important aspect to me. I don't want to add coloring to a recorded track if it is post fader.

I SOLD the 16 channel version to buy the UI24r. Trust that the build between the two is worlds apart ... from the preamps up. The 16 channel version is fine for live, but it is NOT studio grade. IMO, the price tag is fair as the dual purpose solution solves both our live and studio needs.

I usually find that after I buy something, I forget what I paid for it, and generally just settle in -- happy for what it does for me (hopefully).
 
I haven't listened yet, but I'm pretty sure there is a little pop at 1:14.

There's WAY more crap in there than that going on. It's going to drive you a little nuts. Big ass mic pops and all the warts live challenges present!
 
Thanks for that.
I went Kemper last year, so my guitar can go direct and I just got a Zoom Livetrak L-12 in order to get back into recording.

My lead player is running a Boogie, so maybe my Rivera Rockcrusher can get him direct.
As you say, anything to get rid of some bleed live.
Love me some live recordings.:cool:

Bleed MUST be controlled. Uncontrolled -- it'll get into everyone's mics at different times and trigger incalculable phase issues. That's why I edit out the tracks of all lagover bleed during mixing. Some is going to get in because of the vocals anyways ... but the direct sound of the vocal will dominate the background bleed ... but the minute the vocal is complete -- slice out the bleed. It'll "trash the air".
 
Moved and pruned.

Keep up the good work, Kev.

Also, I see you stay in contact with ChrisHarris' daughter. She's doing great. She lives here in town, but I haven't met her yet. Waiting for when I play the Continental Club and she's in the audience. lol.... :D
 
Moved and pruned.

Keep up the good work, Kev.

Also, I see you stay in contact with ChrisHarris' daughter. She's doing great. She lives here in town, but I haven't met her yet. Waiting for when I play the Continental Club and she's in the audience. lol.... :D

Perfect, and thanks C! Please keep Ray off my posts w/ his nonsense in the future. I appreciate his intentions, but he butts in where he's not wanted and tries to set ground rules for board participation -- and both you and I know that's going to just irk folks and drive them away. He's not a mod, and he doesn't get to set the rules. Although his intentions are noble (he'd like to see increased participation), his methods are out of line, and annoying. You can't force anyone into doing anything online, and to try to do so is merely a farcical dick move.

I speak w/ Jaimee on FB now and then on FB still. She's busy. She tried to post here once, but Ray drove her off because she just wasn't devoting the proper amount of time to reciprocity. :D

I talk w/ Chris all the time there -- both on board and back channel.

I'm also working on a keyboard part for a project for Tjarko at the moment -- who, in small world, JUST saw Jaimee perform in the Netherlands last month. Even though he's played on a lot of her songs years ago -- it was also the first time they'd ever met in person.

Kinda cool, I think.

Just wrapped up a live Steely Dan tune (Rikke Don't Lose That Number) ... but I'll wait a while before posting up.

I wouldn't want to upset anyone, ya know. :D
 
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That was pretty cool. didn't you a while back do some Beatles all live?

Ha -- you remembered? Yes. I posted a vid of the guys doing the "vocals only" harmonies for "Nowhere Man". We've since switched parts, with me taking the place of our bass player ... who was having slight trouble not stepping on the lead (he'd be fine one take, and then step all over it the next).

We recorded the "full instrument version" of the piece at the same practice session we rolled the Pink Floyd tune. Give a listen, if you'd like.

 
Cool. Listened and enjoyed. That took some dedication and work, huh!.

Personally I'd do that one again. Not dissing what you did. ( It's not like me and the guys I play with could pull that off)

But it's so close, that with some better mix balance, it could be quite stellar.
:D
 
Just wrapped up a live Steely Dan tune (Rikke Don't Lose That Number) ... but I'll wait a while before posting up.

I wouldn't want to upset anyone, ya know. :D

Put it up. NOW! :D
I won't be upset at all. I wanna hear it.
:D
 
Cool. Listened and enjoyed. That took some dedication and work, huh!.

Personally I'd do that one again. Not dissing what you did. ( It's not like me and the guys I play with could pull that off)

But it's so close, that with some better mix balance, it could be quite stellar.
:D

More just "snapshots in the moment" than we care to devote a ton of attention to.

There would, likely, be another moment captured that is infinitely better than this ... and it would "just so happen" to occur "off camera".

I'm just happy our bass player didn't cough up blood. He was so sick while we did this ... but he was there ... because what we do ... in "Who We Are" nourishes us.

... and he was there for health reasons.

There will be better renditions of this ... at another time. :D
 
I liked it all the same. Thanks for putting up your 'snapshot '.
Now put up Rikki.

:D
 
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