Tool acoustic cover

tallman

New member
This is a home recording done with plug-in acoustic guitars. I'm doing an acoustic tool cover show at Holy joe's on the 13'th, and I am trying to make a recording that the club can play periodically to increase interest in the show.

I would appreciate any criticism on the mix. I'm hoping to have this in rotation at the club as of tommorow.

Oh yeah, here's the link: http://faq.ath.cx/index.php?query=a136.html
 
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Hey man...I think it should work fine for its intended purpose. I won't get all "mixy" on you, because you probably wanna' get this out the door, and I think it's a good representation of what you'll be doing AS IS.

My only suggestion, if it's going into rotation at a club, is to kinda' overlimit it...I know it sounds ridiculous to say in a "mixing" forum, and I feel just a LITTLE bit guilty even typing it, but the truth is, if they don't have a compressor somewhere in their chain, you don't want it sounding like somebody unplugged the system whenever your tune comes up in the rotation. It's fairly loud right now, actually, but I'm guessing (and it is a guess) that you could get another 4 or 5 db out of the mix with a decent limiter without distorting anything.

Good luck
 
chrisharris said:
It's fairly loud right now, actually, but I'm guessing (and it is a guess) that you could get another 4 or 5 db out of the mix with a decent limiter without distorting anything.

Thanks man. Any suggestions on a good limiter? Everything I try sounds like crap. Right now, I'm going through magneto, then a re-eqing, and then magneto again. I can push it harder, but it starts to sound like crap in the loudest parts.
 
tallman said:
Thanks man. Any suggestions on a good limiter? Everything I try sounds like crap. Right now, I'm going through magneto, then a re-eqing, and then magneto again. I can push it harder, but it starts to sound like crap in the loudest parts.
Yeah, magneto is like a tape saturation plug in addition to a limiter, right? Kinda' like PSP's? Seems like I've used it without a ton of success either. I've never found anything better/more transparent than the Waves L2, but it's been awhile since I bothered to look for anything better. I really have to push that thing pretty hard before it starts to crap out.
 
chrisharris said:
Yeah, magneto is like a tape saturation plug in addition to a limiter, right? Kinda' like PSP's? Seems like I've used it without a ton of success either. I've never found anything better/more transparent than the Waves L2, but it's been awhile since I bothered to look for anything better. I really have to push that thing pretty hard before it starts to crap out.

Just out of curiosity, is the L2 a newer version of the L1? I have the Waves stuff but L2 is not included. Actually there are 3 L1's included, L1 Ultramaximizer; L1 Ultramaximizer Mono and the L1 Ultramaximizer Plus. Not real sure of the difference because I don't really know how to use them or what they're for anyway. ;) I just basically play with stuff to see what they do and then try to figure out where to put them in the chain.

I've tried the heavy and moderate limiting on the L1 and the 16kbit FinalMaster Highest Res but it always seems to put an 'edge' on the mix that I don't like. So I usually stick to Heavier or Moderate Limiting just to bring the levels up.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the ultramaximizer either. I haven't tried it for some time, but I remember hearing unfriendly sounding distortion when I pushed it. Someone later informed me that there was a patch for a math problem in one version, but i haven't gone back to try it again.
 
yeah, the L2 is the next version of the "ultramaximizer," and yes, if you overdo it, it definitely gets grainy.
 
Sounds pretty good to me.. But i'm new at this :P

Interested as to how you mic'd the guitars up? Just put a mic near the soundhole/bridge?

thanks,
chris
 
I LOVE tool, so this is a cool representation of a song. I can't comment on much besides the fact I liked it. Good luck to you.
Ed
 
Not bad. There is some fairly noticeable hum in the background. Not sure if it's an amp, or just some electrical interference, but if amplified over a PA it would be obvious, I think. You might run a low cut filter over the track to see if you can minimize it. If you're recording your acoustics direct, via pickup, you should use a direct box (if you aren't already). That will eliminate a lot of this hum while tracking.
 
This being my favorite song from Anema and probably my favorite hard rock band of all time im a tough critic. I think you did a pretty good job on this. The nature of this being acoustic kind of destroys the dynamics in this song that I love so much. I guess thats my only real nitpick. Tool is a tough band to do right and I think you did a descent job adapting it to acoustic.
 
Just curious if you have anything more recorded, i really liked the cover, yea it definetly lost some of the tool dynamic vibe, but thats hard with acoustic guitar, but you made it up with your voice. So anything more I can check out of yours or a link towards a cd and such?? Thanks.
 
I sing backups on the last track of the "Tallman, Mechanism" CD which I have seen on Napster. The track is called "Beneath the Killing Floor" and was produced by Sylvia Massey Shivy (the producer who broke tool). That was a commercially supported recording with other musicians playing their instruments, instead of just me playing everything.

There was "Ebony Run, 1959". It never went into widespread distribution, but I will dig up a copy and post it on my site.

Does anyoine have any idea how to eliminate harsh transients on these acoustic guitars without limiting their overall dynamic range so much? I'd like to limit the transients even on the quiet parts, but the loud parts suddenly just sound squashed. Should I use slower compression so that the audience gets the feel of louder, but then the instrument ends up sitting quieter?
 
Acoustic_Daddy said:
Interested as to how you mic'd the guitars up?

I didn't. This is a plugin acoustic guitar with some sort of pickup in the bridge (I assume). It's considered criminal to record a guitar in the studio this way, but this is how they're going to be plugged in for the live show, so i figured it would closely resemble the feel of a live show (part of my goal in the recording). Besides, my computer sounds like a Boeing 747 preparing for takeoff, and I didn't need too much of that sound in the recording.

Dogman said:
I LOVE tool, so this is a cool representation of a song.

Thanks!

scrubs said:
There is some fairly noticeable hum in the background.

Yes, I didn't notice this over the sound of my computer until I cranked it last night. I will try borrowing a DI from the club next-door, but I have a feeling that I am going to need some harsh eq'ing or professional noise reduction plugin to eliminate it. I also might be able to borrow a bass with active pickups. (the buzz is *definately* in the bass track.) I might use this recording for a few days, and then have the individual parts in the recording replaced by musicians who actually know how to play these instruments well. On stage, I will be relegated to vocals, second guitar, and some supplimental stuff (maybe an old organ or something);

Wireneck said:
The nature of this being acoustic kind of destroys the dynamics in this song that I love so much.

Yeah.. It was more dynamic in the playing.. see my previous comment (about compressing acoustic guitar). This guitar just sounds like crap if I don't compress the crap out of it.. that could be cause I'm not much of a guitar player, or it could just be the nature of this guitar. Maybe i can use more EQ for eliminating the harsh attacks, and open up the compressors a bit.

Drummerboybisch: replied to you in the previous post. I'll upload some stuff for you later today.

Thanks guys, any more comments welcome.
 
Talman,
The dynamics I speak of was geared more torwards the blend between clean and raw distorted guitars. I don't think its really anything in your playing that is lacking. I think you handled the song really well. I would definitely go see you if you were playing near me. Will you post your setlist? Id be interested in hearing more as well if you have them recorded.
 
Singer sucks. He's driving me crazy. Sounds like that fat dude with a harmonica singin it. But even he's better then you/this guy. I'd trash this song. Live it should be better. Everyone would be drunk.

This is one of my fav's as well. I didn't like the way it was done.

Had to bash ya. You can't make it better. So I won't tell ya what you need to improve.

To each his own.
 
Well, being a fan of music, naturally, I regard TOOL as one of the greatest bands of all time. In my opinion, the only time to cover a song is if you can make it better or dramatically different and still of comparable quality. I almost didn't want to listen to this because I didn't want to have anything else associated with this song in my head.

With that said, this is a good song. If I had never heard the original before this, I would be very impressed. As far as recommendations, I would just make many small nitpicks over various vocal instances in the song, but you've got your style and we'll leave that at that for now.

The acoustic element's not bad. Granted, with no budget, there would be alot of great guitar tones and recording techniques to put to use with a cover like this, but that's not the case. The breakdown/solo section sounds pretty cool. The fast playing before the final chorus is one of the main examples of losing that key energy you get from distorted guitars.

So being in the very early aspects of technical knowledge, myself, I can only really suggest singing quieter and more melodic since it is an acoustic track. The vocals sound more geared towards a full-band performance with heavy guitars. I'm just suggesting more gentle, not dramatically quieter. Or you could just go the full route and add distorted guitar and have no limits.
 
wireneck said:
Will you post your setlist? Id be interested in hearing more as well if you have them recorded.

I might record one or two more. Again, these aren't really intended to be listened to critically. Just background music at a busy club. I'll revisit this thread and post the setlist as soon as it's finalized. Rehearsals will start next week, and I'm eager to work with a group of proffesional musicians again.

livilaNic said:
You can't make it better. So I won't tell ya what you need to improve.

Of course I *can* make it better, but the only thing I want to make better here is the mix. This is a quick job for a particular purpose. I'm not trying to sell you on the song.. I'm just trying to get a mix critique. If I was concerned about the performance, i would have used real drums, and played the guitars in time.

tpreager said:

Yup! Holy joe's in Toronto. if you live in the neighborhood, drop by the Reverb. The sound guy should be able to play you the mix I settled on. You can grab tickets at the office if you're thinking of checking out the show.

swatsds said:
So being in the very early aspects of technical knowledge, myself, I can only really suggest singing quieter and more melodic since it is an acoustic track. The vocals sound more geared towards a full-band performance with heavy guitars. I'm just suggesting more gentle, not dramatically quieter. Or you could just go the full route and add distorted guitar and have no limits.

Agreed. This was a pretty weak vocal performance. I''ve actually got a nasty throat infection which has turned my dynamic range into an "on/off" switch. I just took the first take a flew with it.. I don't even think I have the words right.

If anyone is interested, I played a remixed version of this at The Reverb today and instantly sold 15 tickets to the show. That's 1/5th the capacity of the venue! Now that I'm pretty sure I'll have a room full of people, it's time to start working on making this really musical.

Thanks guys!
 
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