The Sun Lies - alternative pop, mix thoughts?

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Hey everyone, another redo of a track written and mixed last year. Since I had access to the drum MIDI here, I rewrote some of the parts. Everything was re-tracked except for the vocal takes. I didn't think I could do any better, and they sounded ok, so I kept them. New guitars, new bass, and an added synth. I actually used two synths on this one, one laying underneath the other for added texture.

There is a lot of automation, though subtle. I frequently raise guitar sets in 0.3-1db increments during each section, or lower them. The vocals were combed over intensely for words that popped out too much, or too little, so as to optimize compression and keep them rather consistent. The doubled vocal during the choruses has much more compression than the lead vocal, since it has a compressor on its individual channel that acts before the vocal bus compressor. Slow attack, quick release for vocals, at 5:1. Bass is Ampeg sim through matching cab, guitars are either Mesa Dual Rec through 4x12's or Soldano through 2x12's in Amplitube. Superior Drummer Rock Warehouse SDX with some NYA pieces.

Please share your thoughts on this mix, and thanks for listening!





Staring at the way they fold, your eyes,
I have learned a lesson here, learned a lesson here.
Quiet as the TV glows, in time
all of this will be so clear, will be so clear.

The sun lies across the sky.
In the shade it's cold, maybe your mind is old.
The sun lies for you and I.
Can't fix your broken wings, I gave up everything tonight.

Something passes by my head, I know,
it's got a hold on me, got a hold of me.
All the while the people said, you know,
"he cut you way too deep, he cut you way too deep".

Softly, I told you: "take my other hand,
and save this while you can".
So angry I made you, when I stood up and
I let this all just fade away.
 
The mix is more open than usual, and I'm digging that. Guitars sound good. No sim harshness. Bass is sitting at a perfect level. I can't remember the first mix, but this one is really good.
 
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Sounds good man.

The bass guitar is overpowering just a touch on my system. The texture is very thick. I think it could probably have more space if you took some of the instruments down a little. Leave more room for vocals and drums. There are parts where the snare isn't coming through as much as it could.
 
Overall it's very good. Well sung, I thought.

The vocal has a slight hissy/sibelent sound to it. I think it might be on the reverb you're using.

Cymbals are swirly - but I'm sure that's SC doing it.

The bass is a little boingy and a little sterile. Maybe add some low midrange?

Guitars sound terrific. I like the grainy guitar in the intro that transition to a more full guitar sound. In the last couple of choruses they just start to overpower the vocal.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
There are parts where the snare isn't coming through as much as it could.
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This was an issue. I bounced the drums out with quite a few 99% snare hits that Superior Drummer uses in its grooves. I overlooked them; I usually go through and edit every velocity one by one. It made compression difficult, although I did try to catch most of those by manually editing the track levels and bringing them down.
 
TripleM said:
The vocal has a slight hissy/sibelent sound to it. I think it might be on the reverb you're using.
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Probably a tracking issue. I hear it too and just couldn't set my de-esser properly to smooth it out consistently. There aren't any boosts, only cuts, including some in the 8-12khz area. And it STILL was sibilent. That was something I was expecting comments on, so I'll look into volume edits on "s" sounds before de-essin, then.

edit: I think I need to look more closely at the freq regions I'm targeting, also. I have the de-esser set to clamp down on 6-14khz, and maybe I need to lower it to around 4-5 and on the other end down to about 10khz. I got lazy with it and threw it on and called it a day without much tweaking. If it's consistent throughout the track, then it's probably outside of the range I set, meaning the 4-5khz area might be adding to it - and that area isn't being touched.

Thanks man
 
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TripleM said:
The vocal has a slight hissy/sibelent sound to it. I think it might be on the reverb you're using.
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I heard that, too, but I wasn't sure if I should bring it up b/c I brought it up in past mixes by Andru and don't want to harp on it/beat a dead horse. I think it's the mic or the compressor, but IME delay/reverb can also be culprits. It's best to just be deductive and eliminate things from the signal chain until you isolate it. I'd like to hear the raw vocal to see if it's the mic/room.

I'm not trying to nit your vocal, andru. It's way better than anything I can do. But I do hear that on almost all your vocal tracks and think you should isolate it and then fix it b/c it would make a great improvement. The vocals are great in terms of performance but have that sound to them.

I also wanted to make a suggestion about a lyric but wasn't sure you wanted that type of feedback or just on the mix, so I will do it via PM.
 
Nice sound-Like the cleanish guitar sounds and the chord progression.The vocals seem a little low and I do hear a sibilance to them the high hats sound very similar to your vocal "s". Hard to hear the words right from the get go, melody wise sounds nice-by the time the second verse comes around the words are more clear. Something when the drums come in is awkward... Mix overall seems low-mid rangey-you could probably add a lot of brightness to this. I personally like this kind of sound though, more warm and bassy, it's easier on the ears.
 
TripleM said:
Maybe add some low midrange?
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Stratomaster said:
Mix overall seems low-mid rangey
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.... lol

The balance overall was very similar to the modern rock tracks I side-by-sided in my DAW. Everyone's systems give off something different. I'm not sure if I could get away with much brightness added since the vocals and guitars have a decent amount of top end already.

Back to the sibilance. These are vocals recorded over a year ago with a cheap condenser in a untreated bedroom at a close distance. I'm very sibilant when I sing, even with a pop filter it's picked up. I pay next to zero attention, when singing, about minding the esses. If I were to retrack them, they would be improved, though, since I have a new setup for vocal recording. "The Suffering of Aiden" and "Black Mirrors" are the only tunes I sung within at least a year. The older stuff has a lot of sibilance though.
 
Nice song, bud.

I'm not noticing a mid-range problem, sounds just about right to me. I did notice the sibilance, but wasn't too bad. Early on, the hats seemed a little further left than expected, but it didn't distract any. As was said, the snare was a little weak at times, but wasn't too bad either.

Got an Oasis vibe from this, nice writing dude.
 
TripleM said:
Are you sure? Try rolling off some high end off of the vocal reverb. See if that helps. Because I seem to be hearing it in the decay of the reverberation.
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Yes. Here's a section of the raw vocal, tracked over a year ago with a $79 condenser and poor technique :) Compression, though needed, exaggerates it and the de-essing only hopes to a degree. I think I actually had a second de-esser in the vocal chain. Next time, I may just do what Ray does and edit the volume manually on the s sounds. There's a million ways to correct it, so I'm still working at it. Getting it better at the source is my first obstacle.

 
What the fuck is this? Seriously? I'll only say this, when a song sounds great on crap speakers, then you have a great song. I try to listen to what they artist wants to accomplish, and you accomplished it. GREAT SONG, great delivery, excellent instrumentation. I might steal this off soundcloud.
 
Sorry I missed this one. Not much to add. I'm finding the rhythm guitar on the left in the intro a bit loud in relation to the vocal. I think in general, I'd nudge the guitars down a bit throughout the song. Wherever they are sharing space with the lead vocal, they are stepping on it just a bit. It's especially noticeable in the building parts where you have those sustaining guitars. There are some pushy frequencies in that synth part that are a little jarring at the level you have that part.
 
Snowman999 said:
What the fuck is this? Seriously? I'll only say this, when a song sounds great on crap speakers, then you have a great song. I try to listen to what they artist wants to accomplish, and you accomplished it. GREAT SONG, great delivery, excellent instrumentation. I might steal this off soundcloud.
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Thanks man. I'm contemplating gathering the songs up and putting them on iTunes. I just don't think I have them mixed well enough for that yet. I'll probably give it another 6 months of mixing, then I'll go through and remix one more time this fall. 10 songs sounds about right - an album, I suppose. thanks again
 
Robus said:
Sorry I missed this one. Not much to add. I'm finding the rhythm guitar on the left in the intro a bit loud in relation to the vocal. I think in general, I'd nudge the guitars down a bit throughout the song. Wherever they are sharing space with the lead vocal, they are stepping on it just a bit. It's especially noticeable in the building parts where you have those sustaining guitars. There are some pushy frequencies in that synth part that are a little jarring at the level you have that part.
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I listened to this today, before reading your comment, and I agree the guitars can come down as the song goes on. I add a second layer and then a third, and while I brought the volume down on the guitars, they could come down more. I wasn't happy with the bass sound either. I think the last tune, Mandolin, has better bass. I'll look at my EQ there and compare. Thanks Ray
 
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