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Thread: The Sun Lies - alternative pop - comments/feedback welcome

  1. #1
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    The Sun Lies - alternative pop - comments/feedback welcome

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    Hey guys,

    First, THANK YOU to all the kind members I bugged about some issues with this track. It is much, much appreciated. You have someone to bug if ya need something...

    I posted this a few days ago but took it down due to some vocal crap that I didn't catch before bouncing. oops. (Thanks to Ray's post) Hopefully this one is an improvement and sounding decent enough.

    note: The "lies" part of "the sun lies" is implied as "fib". I'm not sure I conveyed that message, although it's rather important to me. Better lyrics to reinforce that idea would have helped...it didn't dawn on me until later that it could be taken as "sits" or some form of positioning. oops.



    Staring at the way they fold, your eyes,
    I have learned a lesson here.
    Quiet as the TV glows, in time,
    all of this will be so clear.

    The sun lies across the sky.
    In the shade it's cold, maybe your (my) mind is old.
    The sun lies, for you and I.
    Can't fix your broken wings,
    I gave up everything tonight (I can't fix anything tonight).

    Something passes by my head, I know,
    it's got a hold on me, you've got a hold on me.
    All the while the people said,
    "you know, he cut you way too deep".

    Softly, I told you,
    "take my other hand, and save this while you can".
    So angry, I made you... when I stood up and
    I let this all just fade away.
    Last edited by andrushkiwt; 05-11-2016 at 17:49.
    "No healthy person waits in line with a slew of geriatrics on a Sunday morning for pancakes" - RFR https://soundcloud.com/andrushkiwt

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    First thing that jumps out at me is the lead vocal has got those grating frequencies emphasized. When I crank up the speakers, it's the vocals that make me want to turn down. Could be that it's just loud too. It sounds like the guitars are a little louder than recent songs. Maybe you're pushing the vocal a bit harder to get it to cut through?

    Listening again, I do think your guitars and lead vocal are too loud. For example, in the intro you've got that ambient synth part that gets buried. Is it my imagination, or are the doubled rhythm guitars panned closer than usual? Toward the end, when that rhythm lead comes in, you've got lot of guitars competing with each other. They're not blending well for my ears. Individually they sound good but too much, too loud. Need to make some editorial choices.

    Bass sounds great. Kick pattern drives the rhythm well.

    Nice ending.

    It's a good song as always. Performances are very good. I would understand that line in the lyric the way you didn't intend, not the way you did intend.

    I'll listen again later.

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    Hmm..weird because those are the exact ones I cut out...between 900-3khz there's a 4db cut. I'll check aagain shortly, though , didn't notice it on my HD280s or in the car. I don't know if SC gives a top boost..? I'll have to listen to it through SC. I might just go back to the old mic. I'm having difficulty with this at4040 on my voice (my room might be most to blame, but the other didn't seem to be so difficult to get sitting right).

    EDIT: Yeah I don't know what's up there. I might have uploaded an earlier mix - i'm not sure. took it down for now. i'll come back to it in a week or two. thanks
    Last edited by andrushkiwt; 05-10-2016 at 16:45.

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    new mix up. thnx Ray
    "No healthy person waits in line with a slew of geriatrics on a Sunday morning for pancakes" - RFR https://soundcloud.com/andrushkiwt

  5. #5
    RAMI Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by andrushkiwt View Post
    THANK YOU to all the kind members I bugged about some issues with this track.
    What's wrong? You don't want to be seen with us in public?

    All joking aside, I already told you that you do this style of music as good as anything I've heard. Put this in a Kazillion dollar studio like the big bands doing this and you'd stand shoulder to shoulder. Nice arrangement, perfect voice, good song, etc....

    I still find the snare either slightly too dry or slightly too loud. But I have to admit that by about 30 seconds in, it's not even an issue. But, like I said, I don't think it would hurt it to be slightly lower and/or wetter.

    I noticed something with the bass. When it first comes in, the second note (I think an F) drops out a bit compared to the first note (G#?). It almost sounds like you played the first note on your E string, but played the second note on the A string, which doesn't carry as much oomph. But, considering which 2 notes we're dealing with, I can't see you playing them that way. So, there's something in the bass that's causing that to happen. Could be whatever you might be cutting with EQ. It's not a big issue, but I did notice it. The cool thing is, I was trying to find where those two notes happen again, and they don't, if I'm not mistaken. The other times that I expected it to happen, the bass stayed on the G#. So it seems to only happen one time in the whole song. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if that's the case, then it's not a big deal.

    How do you record your vocals? It sounds like you are singing straight into the mic? Or, you have a lot of compression on the vocal, which can sometimes tend to make the high's a little harsh. Since I don't know how you process your vocals, I'll just suggest that you try turning the mic slightly at an angle to your mouth, rather than straight on.

    Really good song and arrangement.

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    Well thanks for the kind words. I really do appreciate that, probably more than you think.

    You got me...the second note is what you said but I think one time I played it at 9 on A instead of 4 at D. I don't know why..i think maybe I was testing out which cut through better but kept the take and forgot about that test. Very very good catch. Lol. Jesus Christ. One note dude. Wow. Impressed.

    Hmm snare needs more verb? I wouldn't disagree. I did toggle the send within 3-4 dbs each time I sat down to work on it. I would probably bet the level and placement of it would sit better if I did so. Good idea.

    Vocals are compressed, but not too much on this one. Its really my room that's holding them back. I hang blankets and try to absorb some sound, but it's very "grating-like" even before any eq or comp. I end up making cuts in the 900-2.5 area. No vocal top boost, but the cuts might emphasise the rest. There is a master bus shelf of 1db at 7kHz. This mic was the at4040. I really wasn't standing close, although I moved closer on the softer lines.. But even that was at least 6-8 out. I keep my pop filter that far to prevent me from getting too on top of it, like someone here suggested awhile ago. I really do turn it so slightly to the side. But very slightly...how much are you talking?

  7. #7
    RAMI Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by andrushkiwt View Post
    Vocals are compressed, but not too much on this one. Its really my room that's holding them back. I hang blankets and try to absorb some sound, but it's very "grating-like" even before any eq or comp. I end up making cuts in the 900-2.5 area. No vocal top boost, but the cuts might emphasise the rest. There is a master bus shelf of 1db at 7kHz. This mic was the at4040. I really wasn't standing close, although I moved closer on the softer lines.. But even that was at least 6-8 out. I keep my pop filter that far to prevent me from getting too on top of it, like someone here suggested awhile ago. I really do turn it so slightly to the side. But very slightly...how much are you talking?
    Yeah, slightly. About 15-20 degrees? Not sure the angle, but try different angles. Just seems like something's hyping the highs on the vocals a bit. A room doesn't really do that. If you think the room would do that, then try the opposite and sing closer to the mic to take the room out of the equation, or at least less room. Something to experiment with next time you track vocals, along with seeing how far you can sing off axis before losing sound quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAMI View Post
    Yeah, slightly. About 15-20 degrees? Not sure the angle, but try different angles. Just seems like something's hyping the highs on the vocals a bit. A room doesn't really do that. If you think the room would do that, then try the opposite and sing closer to the mic to take the room out of the equation, or at least less room. Something to experiment with next time you track vocals, along with seeing how far you can sing off axis before losing sound quality.
    I'd guess this was 5-10 degrees, just a touch off center. I'll try further. Thank you

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    I think you've just got a really powerful voice. Some of those frequencies come out like a missile. A lot of your mixing struggles come down to taming those frequencies. If you could reduce them at the source by experimenting with microphone placement, life would get easier.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robus View Post
    I think you've just got a really powerful voice. Some of those frequencies come out like a missile. A lot of your mixing struggles come down to taming those frequencies. If you could reduce them at the source by experimenting with microphone placement, life would get easier.
    I think this is true. I can really belt in that area (700-3khz) and you should see the EQ graph when the track is unprocessed. There's massive jumps in there no matter the mic, so yeah I end up using 5-6 small notches in between those freqs. I've also tried using a compressor sidechained to those freqs.

    I hope moving the mic to the side works - when I'm tracking, I don't pick up those issues. It's not until I go to mix it that I realize there's a problem.
    "No healthy person waits in line with a slew of geriatrics on a Sunday morning for pancakes" - RFR https://soundcloud.com/andrushkiwt

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