The Sun Lies - alternative pop - comments/feedback welcome

andrushkiwt

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Hey guys,

First, THANK YOU to all the kind members I bugged about some issues with this track. It is much, much appreciated. You have someone to bug if ya need something...

I posted this a few days ago but took it down due to some vocal crap that I didn't catch before bouncing. oops. (Thanks to Ray's post) Hopefully this one is an improvement and sounding decent enough.

note: The "lies" part of "the sun lies" is implied as "fib". I'm not sure I conveyed that message, although it's rather important to me. Better lyrics to reinforce that idea would have helped...it didn't dawn on me until later that it could be taken as "sits" or some form of positioning. oops.



Staring at the way they fold, your eyes,
I have learned a lesson here.
Quiet as the TV glows, in time,
all of this will be so clear.

The sun lies across the sky.
In the shade it's cold, maybe your (my) mind is old.
The sun lies, for you and I.
Can't fix your broken wings,
I gave up everything tonight (I can't fix anything tonight).

Something passes by my head, I know,
it's got a hold on me, you've got a hold on me.
All the while the people said,
"you know, he cut you way too deep".

Softly, I told you,
"take my other hand, and save this while you can".
So angry, I made you... when I stood up and
I let this all just fade away.
 
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First thing that jumps out at me is the lead vocal has got those grating frequencies emphasized. When I crank up the speakers, it's the vocals that make me want to turn down. Could be that it's just loud too. It sounds like the guitars are a little louder than recent songs. Maybe you're pushing the vocal a bit harder to get it to cut through?

Listening again, I do think your guitars and lead vocal are too loud. For example, in the intro you've got that ambient synth part that gets buried. Is it my imagination, or are the doubled rhythm guitars panned closer than usual? Toward the end, when that rhythm lead comes in, you've got lot of guitars competing with each other. They're not blending well for my ears. Individually they sound good but too much, too loud. Need to make some editorial choices.

Bass sounds great. Kick pattern drives the rhythm well.

Nice ending.

It's a good song as always. Performances are very good. I would understand that line in the lyric the way you didn't intend, not the way you did intend.

I'll listen again later.
 
Hmm..weird because those are the exact ones I cut out...between 900-3khz there's a 4db cut. I'll check aagain shortly, though , didn't notice it on my HD280s or in the car. I don't know if SC gives a top boost..? I'll have to listen to it through SC. I might just go back to the old mic. I'm having difficulty with this at4040 on my voice (my room might be most to blame, but the other didn't seem to be so difficult to get sitting right).

EDIT: Yeah I don't know what's up there. I might have uploaded an earlier mix - i'm not sure. took it down for now. i'll come back to it in a week or two. thanks
 
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andrushkiwt said:
THANK YOU to all the kind members I bugged about some issues with this track.
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What's wrong? You don't want to be seen with us in public? :D

All joking aside, I already told you that you do this style of music as good as anything I've heard. Put this in a Kazillion dollar studio like the big bands doing this and you'd stand shoulder to shoulder. Nice arrangement, perfect voice, good song, etc....

I still find the snare either slightly too dry or slightly too loud. But I have to admit that by about 30 seconds in, it's not even an issue. But, like I said, I don't think it would hurt it to be slightly lower and/or wetter.

I noticed something with the bass. When it first comes in, the second note (I think an F) drops out a bit compared to the first note (G#?). It almost sounds like you played the first note on your E string, but played the second note on the A string, which doesn't carry as much oomph. But, considering which 2 notes we're dealing with, I can't see you playing them that way. So, there's something in the bass that's causing that to happen. Could be whatever you might be cutting with EQ. It's not a big issue, but I did notice it. The cool thing is, I was trying to find where those two notes happen again, and they don't, if I'm not mistaken. The other times that I expected it to happen, the bass stayed on the G#. So it seems to only happen one time in the whole song. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if that's the case, then it's not a big deal.

How do you record your vocals? It sounds like you are singing straight into the mic? Or, you have a lot of compression on the vocal, which can sometimes tend to make the high's a little harsh. Since I don't know how you process your vocals, I'll just suggest that you try turning the mic slightly at an angle to your mouth, rather than straight on.

Really good song and arrangement.
 
Well thanks for the kind words. I really do appreciate that, probably more than you think.

You got me...the second note is what you said but I think one time I played it at 9 on A instead of 4 at D. I don't know why..i think maybe I was testing out which cut through better but kept the take and forgot about that test. Very very good catch. Lol. Jesus Christ. One note dude. Wow. Impressed.

Hmm snare needs more verb? I wouldn't disagree. I did toggle the send within 3-4 dbs each time I sat down to work on it. I would probably bet the level and placement of it would sit better if I did so. Good idea.

Vocals are compressed, but not too much on this one. Its really my room that's holding them back. I hang blankets and try to absorb some sound, but it's very "grating-like" even before any eq or comp. I end up making cuts in the 900-2.5 area. No vocal top boost, but the cuts might emphasise the rest. There is a master bus shelf of 1db at 7kHz. This mic was the at4040. I really wasn't standing close, although I moved closer on the softer lines.. But even that was at least 6-8 out. I keep my pop filter that far to prevent me from getting too on top of it, like someone here suggested awhile ago. I really do turn it so slightly to the side. But very slightly...how much are you talking?
 
andrushkiwt said:
Vocals are compressed, but not too much on this one. Its really my room that's holding them back. I hang blankets and try to absorb some sound, but it's very "grating-like" even before any eq or comp. I end up making cuts in the 900-2.5 area. No vocal top boost, but the cuts might emphasise the rest. There is a master bus shelf of 1db at 7kHz. This mic was the at4040. I really wasn't standing close, although I moved closer on the softer lines.. But even that was at least 6-8 out. I keep my pop filter that far to prevent me from getting too on top of it, like someone here suggested awhile ago. I really do turn it so slightly to the side. But very slightly...how much are you talking?
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Yeah, slightly. About 15-20 degrees? Not sure the angle, but try different angles. Just seems like something's hyping the highs on the vocals a bit. A room doesn't really do that. If you think the room would do that, then try the opposite and sing closer to the mic to take the room out of the equation, or at least less room. Something to experiment with next time you track vocals, along with seeing how far you can sing off axis before losing sound quality.
 
RAMI said:
Yeah, slightly. About 15-20 degrees? Not sure the angle, but try different angles. Just seems like something's hyping the highs on the vocals a bit. A room doesn't really do that. If you think the room would do that, then try the opposite and sing closer to the mic to take the room out of the equation, or at least less room. Something to experiment with next time you track vocals, along with seeing how far you can sing off axis before losing sound quality.
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I'd guess this was 5-10 degrees, just a touch off center. I'll try further. Thank you
 
I think you've just got a really powerful voice. Some of those frequencies come out like a missile. A lot of your mixing struggles come down to taming those frequencies. If you could reduce them at the source by experimenting with microphone placement, life would get easier.
 
Robus said:
I think you've just got a really powerful voice. Some of those frequencies come out like a missile. A lot of your mixing struggles come down to taming those frequencies. If you could reduce them at the source by experimenting with microphone placement, life would get easier.
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I think this is true. I can really belt in that area (700-3khz) and you should see the EQ graph when the track is unprocessed. There's massive jumps in there no matter the mic, so yeah I end up using 5-6 small notches in between those freqs. I've also tried using a compressor sidechained to those freqs.

I hope moving the mic to the side works - when I'm tracking, I don't pick up those issues. It's not until I go to mix it that I realize there's a problem.
 
I thought it sounds good, listening on studio monitors, only thing I noticed are that the backing vocals are a bit on the quiet side, if it was me I'd make the reverb a bit more obvious, it will give it more depth.
 
Really good song. Amazing vocals.

When the harmonies say, "he cut you way too deep". There is something off in the timing, or possibly the consonants need to be cut a little with automation. Something there is distracting me.

I really like the outro. Although I'd have a few less drum hits there. I'd be like, drummer calm down this is not about you.
 
+1 on the vocal frequencies. Tho by the time the band kicked in, I stopped noticing them much.

The "lies" part of "the sun lies" is implied as "fib". I'm not sure I conveyed that message...it didn't dawn on me until later that it could be taken as "sits" or some form of positioning.
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How dare you use wordplay - even unintentionally - in your songwriting! :D
 
Btyre2013 said:
I thought it sounds good, listening on studio monitors, only thing I noticed are that the backing vocals are a bit on the quiet side, if it was me I'd make the reverb a bit more obvious, it will give it more depth.
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hmmm, making the reverb more obvious is going to drown out the vocals, not make them louder. I actually thought they were too loud though, so if I did anything to them, it would probably be a bit more verb on the send. thnx!
 
Jessica_X said:
Really good song. Amazing vocals.

When the harmonies say, "he cut you way too deep". There is something off in the timing, or possibly the consonants need to be cut a little with automation. Something there is distracting me.

I really like the outro. Although I'd have a few less drum hits there. I'd be like, drummer calm down this is not about you.
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thanks! i wouldn't doubt some consonants are popping out, though my car says one thing, my mixing phones another, and my work buds yet another. Smooth on one, a little rough/grating on something else. Proper monitors would help, but vocal technique and mic placement are definite areas to improve on.

thanks for the outro...i like doing those. Yeah i could see how the drums have a couple extra hits, i just sat there (before drums were written for that part) and acted out what I would do. Could have/should have spent more time on it.

thank you!
 
VomitHatSteve said:
+1 on the vocal frequencies. Tho by the time the band kicked in, I stopped noticing them much.


How dare you use wordplay - even unintentionally - in your songwriting! :D
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yup, i think vocals are the next project. I got some tips on how to improve them, feel free to add something if you can. Turning the mic a bit more and making sure I'm farther away are what I'm going with for the next track.
 
By the way, I forgot to mention, I love the line "The Sun Lies". I knew right away it was a double meaning type thing, and I always love word play. This one works for sure.
 
RAMI said:
By the way, I forgot to mention, I love the line "The Sun Lies". I knew right away it was a double meaning type thing, and I always love word play. This one works for sure.
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not to get all sappy, but the day after a breakup, the sun was shining after a week of crappy weather and rain. I had those "lovesick blues" and i thought it was ironic that it was such a beautiful day when i felt like such crap -like the sun was lying. the breakup was necessary, but it's never easy. anyway, i had the melody in my head and an "ee" vowel in there, but that morning the line just fell into place, so i went home and wrapped up the chorus. The verses and bridge lyrics were last minute before recording.

glad you appreciated it.
 
It's a nice performance all around.
The only thing I'd nitpick is the vocal sounds a bit nasal on my system. The suggestion to try miking it off axis is a good one. Also I think angling the mic downward might pick up more "chest voice". Some of that could be the mic itself, too.
 
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