Slower Rock/Alternative song

Wireneck

New member
Im doing some work for my friends band. Their music is way outside of the Genre (metal) that I normally record. I decided that it couldn't hurt to take on something totally different. I am hoping that this turns out to be a positive thing.
This is my initial attempt at getting some levels and eq going. The vocals are done but I am trying to get a good instrumental mix going before I bring in the vocals.
Some things I already think need work are
-the hiss in the intro needs to be removed
-the guitars could maybe use some limiting to make them a little more consistent volume wise.
-I think the bass may need alot of work.
-Im not really sure about the low end of the mix, or possibly the low mids? I listened on a few house cd players, sounded fine. In the car with a sub was ok but at work on a bigger stereo Pa system it sounded like ass. (they may have had screwy eq settings).
So any advice on the bottom end or anything else mix wise will be appreciated. I know it still needs alot of work. This is just the beginning. Thanks for you time guys.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3299&alid=-1
"Amelia"
 
ok, I`ll tell ya what I hear on this end. I really like what you did with the kit, nice kick and snare, near the end the snare seems to gain some level especially on the flams. The toms don`t have quite enough juice. The overheads are bit strong over the kit to me. The bass sounded good, I could hear a little bit of the string winding and that kept it clearer. The rythym guitar sounds a little humpy in the mids and low mids, sorta treads in there where the bass and kick are working, maybe a touch strong. the compressor may smooth it down some. The solo git tone sounded fine to me. This got a good start. Not a guru like you but it`s what I hear... :)
 
Toki-thanks for the fast response. The initial drum tracking was sort of a nightmare. The drummer was nervous, he didn't want to adjust his kit so I could get the mics in better places and to top everything off, he had probably the biggest snare I have ever seen on a kit. It had to have been 14" by 12-14" deep. I don't really have the tracks to do top and bottom mics on the snare and I don't have a phase reversal switch on my mixer (i know, I know, just switch a mic cable around, im lazy lol) so I ended up micing the shell. Needless to say, I got loads of bleed in places that I didn't intend to. Bringing the overheads down some may work, i had them up a bit to cover up all the gating I have going on.
Guru? I hope thats sarcasm lol, i don't really know what the hell im doing. I just turn knobs and roll around in my comfy chair while drinking loads of Dr. Pepper.
 
Wireneck said:
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Guru? I hope thats sarcasm lol, i don't really know what the hell im doing. I just turn knobs and roll around in my comfy chair while drinking loads of Dr. Pepper.

But you do it well, I pick up something from your work every time :)
 
Hey man. . .

I think I know which song this is even without vox. . .

-I like the guitar tones. The are definately some out of tune spots once in a while. Not really a big deal for a demo. I think some mud (say below 150hz) on the guitars could be cleaned up a bit and that would let the bass come through better. Can you get your hands on a parametric EQ? If not maybe just rolloff the low EQ a bit on your board. Oh yeah, I think the high mids in the guitars could come out a bit.

-Don't be afraid to cut some of the guitars out, if you feel it helps the arrangement of the song.

-I would let the leadish lines in the guitar come out a bit more

-The kick sounds a little thuddy. I think maybe scoop the mids a bit more. Really roomy sounding drums. You might consider adding some verb to some guitar tracks to make them feel like they are in the same space.

-Overall I think the mix could have a little more high end to it. Crispier cymbals and high mids of the guitars could definately be raised to make the mix a bit brighter.

Beez
 
"But you do it well, I pick up something from your work every time"

Thanks man I appreciate the kind words. I attempt to do what I do well. It does not always work out that way.

Beezoboy-thanks for the comments man I will take them all into consideration.

"The are definately some out of tune spots once in a while"

Yep lol, there are alot of timing issues and drum flubs going on as well. I got the best performance/tuning that I could out of them.

I am struggling a bit with the guitars. Dave has a very dark tone to begin with and then he rolls the volume back on his guitar to lose some gain and it makes things even darker.

"Don't be afraid to cut some of the guitars out, if you feel it helps the arrangement of the song. "

I tried to offer some production type ideas about the arrangements but they weren't having any of it. Im pretty much taking soley an engineering standpoint on this project.

"I would let the leadish lines in the guitar come out a bit more"
Im hoping limiting/compression will keep them up front a bit more. As you guessed alot of the "Lead" is slightly out of tune or just downright sloppy lol. So I didn't think it needed to be too out front.

Reverb on the guitars will definantly help. Thanks for the input man. I really appreciate the ideas.
 
I think this sounds great, one of your best sounding production-wise. Drums sound very authentic, love the guitar tones as well. Bass sounds fine to me as well. I'd love to hear the final mix.
 
FattMusiek- thanks for the listen/compliments. I should have an updated mix uploaded tonight or tomorrow. I tried some of the suggestions everyone made, and they seem to help.
 
I listened to the updated mix. Much nicer.

Kick sounds great here.

Branded, maybe you have your sub turned up too much??

The snare could definately have something done to it. Later though since you might want to get vox in the mix first. I always have to find a nice Vox to Snare balance before I mess too much with a snare.

Also, the tom panning seems a bit to far to the left on the rack roms. Great tone from them, just panned a bit too wide I think.

Just wondering, what mic did use for Vox? (Not trying to be a smart ass. I am just wondering what you used on Dave. I have only ever used an MXL V67 or the U87 when I had them for his acoustic stuff.)

Good work.
Beez
 
Robby,
thanks for the second listen. The snare may be a little tough to tweak. I have almost as much bleed as I do snare sound lol. I guess thats what doing things in a hurry gets you.
I'll look into panning the toms in a little. I think I have them around 11 and 1 o clock.
For vocals, we used a 57 on the scratch track and I honestly thought (with a little EQ) it fit his voice pretty well. For the real vocal take we initially tried my At 3035. It sounded horrible on dave's voice lol. It brought out the nasally/mid rangey distorted sound in his voice alot more. It was very thin sounding. Next we tried my studio projects B1. It seemed to take off some of the high end/nasally quality. I don't do alot of vocals so those were really my options at the time. I honestly wanted to go with the 57 but after playing back a take with each mic, they chose the B1. I think it works but there is probably a better mic for his type of voice.
 
Branded-thanks for the listen, i don't know whats up with your sub man. I checked the mix on two different setups with subs and no popping.
 
Another Updated Mix Clip
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3299&alid=-1

"Amelia3" at the bottom of the page.

-I panned the toms further in.
-Put some of the low mids that I had cut back in the snare to try and give it a little more body.
-messed with the compression on the bass to try and make it more consistent.
-Brought the vocals into the mix.

Its been a while since i have recorded or mixed anything with vocals. I know the vocals get a little buzzy in spots (i think the input clipped or the limiter hit a little too hard on some places) it was 5 in the morning when they HAD to do these tracks, cut me some slack lol. Any thoughts on the mix at this stage would be helpful.
 
Dude. . . Turn the vox up. A lot. Really. And you could compress the crap out of them too, because I know Dave is a pretty dynamic singer.

I like how you backed off on the reverb on the instruments. Those guitars sound really good. The bass is sounding good too. The kick and the toms sound great too.

Maybe you could turn the intro guitars down or something, so that there is a better contrast when everything kicks in. Like maybe just do the intro with that track on the left playing. Then when the drums and bass kick in you'll get a nice hugeness factor.

You're probably going to have to turn some of the rhythm tracks down to accomodate the vox too.

Still got to do something about that snare. Trying bringing it back on another channel and then inserting your favorite nasty guitar pedal. Something with lots of compression. Oh yeah and gate it before you hit with that pedal. Salt to taste after that. You might try EQing the distorted one to make some SNAP and then let the undistorted one make up the body. I think there is a nice body sound to the snare now. Believe me, once you pet the distortion on the snare and mix it in, it will have an entirely new and cool sound.

Oh yeah. How are those compressors working for you?

Beez
 
Robby- after listening some more today I caught some of the things you mention. I think the rhythm guitars were a little loud and they are clouding up the vocal space a bit/as well as keep the bass sort of in the background.
I don't remember turning back the verb in the aux bus lol but I did notice its alot quieter now. Maybe its just blending better? I really don't know what happened but I like it how it is now.
I was thinking about hitting the vocals pretty hard but the only compressor i have left open is my Presonus blue max and I think its going to color/distort the vocal alot more than they already are in places.
Can you be a little more descriptive about your dislike for the snare? Honestly, I think the snare sound itself (in the room) sucked ass to begin with. I would have never in a million years used that snare for this track lol. With that said, I don't really know if any amount of tricks are going to help. It can't hurt to try though. Im just trying to get better picture of what everyone else is hearing. Im hearing poor choice of a snare for this track lol.
The compressors are working great man. I really appreciate you letting me borrow them. I have them inserted on the rhythm guitars right now, keeping them in check.
Now if FedEx would hurry up with my DBX quad gate I would be on my way .
Thanks again for the ideas, ill definantly give them a shot.
 
I'd like to hear more than 1:50 of the song. From what I heard though, I think the vox could come up some. Things are sounding good to me though.
 
Thanks flash, i will definantly post the whole thing. I initially did post the entire song but its just alot easier to repost updated clips since im on dialup. This stuff is pretty cut and dry, so if the snare sucks in the beginning or anything like that, its probably going to suck after 1:50.
 
Wireneck,

I checked out the "2" version which had no vocals on it.

The overall clarity is great!:cool:

The kick sound wonderful but, a hair too loud in the mix unless some big scary, heavy part is going to come in with a full blown chorus or something to justify the hot level on it.

The cymbals too, sound great and very clear but also a little too loud for a quieter kind of tune unless, like I said, some big loud part is coming up.

Is there a full mix with vox on the horizon? I'd love to hear that!

Cheers! :)
 
Most of the obvious issues needing attention have already been addressed by yourself and others so no comment needed.
All I can add is some bass "presence" and a lil' mo' volume!!

Yo' Wireneck, this baby is just BEGGIN' for some serious,lyrical content along with a screemin'-mimi, lead-solo!!! You got a nice musical,framework ready to rip and with some tweaks here and there, this song is workin'!!!
 
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