Rough Mix: The Joker (rock rock rock)

[timkroeger]

Hey,

this is a tune I did with my band back in 2005/6 when it still existed. We broke up a few months after that track. I didn't have any clue about recording back then, so the tracking is what it is. We used cheapo t.bone mics (LDC for vocals, some cheap t.bone mic set for drums, 2 t.bone SDCs for stereo overhead), one sm57 for guitar amps and the bass went via the Ampeg head's direct out.

Mics were aimed to "look like it could work / as seen on TV" in a completely untreated room (we had some egg crates, yeah... and some bed sheets to cover the ceiling). The mics went into an m-audio octane preamp and then into an 8 channel m-audio delta 1010 interface. So did the DI. We recorded 1 guitar dirt track, then drums went first with click and guitar dirt as reference. Then came bass, rhythm guitars, lead guitar and finally vocals.

Drum channels are left and right overheads, bass drum, snare, hi toms (mic aimed between tom 1 and 2), low toms (mic aimed between tom 3 and 4) and floor tom. Most of the drums in the current mix come from the overheads though with additional channels just supporting.

We had 3 rhythm guitar tracks (1 Vox AC 30, 1 doubled Marshall Valvestate 8080) and one lead guitar track (again the 8080).

The tracking and mixing I did back then was pretty awful and I'd like to track it again but since I don't have the opportunity right now (and the band doesn't exist any more) I wanted to try and make something out of the old raw tracks with reaper and some basic plugins (eq, gate, comp, chorus, reverb). I have been mixing this track for the last few hours "in the box" and I'd say this is my first honest try at mixing where I used my ears and didn't just add an insane amount of insert FX with presets.

I'd appreciate some honest, even brutal and hopefully constructive feedback regarding the mixing, and of course the music. Let me know what you think and what I could do better, as I'm essentially just starting out. I have been using active Yamaha HS80M near field monitors and the room I'm currently mixing in is untreated, so no ideal listening environment for me, yet.

Check it out: The Joker (mp3)

2nd mix: The Joker 2 (mp3)

3rd mix: The Joker 3 (mp3)

4th mix (just a louder, overdriven and brickwall-limited variant of the 3rd): The Joker 4 (mp3)

Oh, background vocals are cheesy, I know

Cheers
Tim

 

[zero00]

Hello, that's a dirty guitar sound, i love it... at first i said, "mmmm", but when everything came together it was, "holly shit, i take it back"... nice rhythm and lyrics...

Ok, lets go to the mix: when the guitar is alone is a little too loud, check the balance. The vox is buried during the whole song. Finally check the snare, to me sounds like hitting a peace of wood, and also i can't hear dynamics on it, could it be over compressed? The bass and kick can be distinguish properly, i would add some plastic to the kick around 800-1000 hz.

The rest is cool... nice guitar solo...

Keep Rocking!!!

Cheers

 

[dodgeaspen]

Sounds real good man. I like it.

 

[Manslick]

I agree on the over compressed snare. Damn that thing is dead dude.

Cymbals sound great.

Generally sounds pretty good.

 

[timkroeger]

Hey!

Thanks for all the feedback. I didn't expect to get such a positive feedback, thank you very much! So I did another mix where I tried to address the things mentioned and some other things I noticed myself, too.

I agree, the track sounded too compressed. At first I didn't get it because I don't have any compression on the main bus but I had used a much too low threshold and 6:1 ratio on the overhead bus to bring down the snare. Most of the snare comes from the overheads and it's pretty loud. It was a giant and loud Tama snare (big whoop?). Anyway I tried to raise the threshold and went with a 3:1 ratio but a slightly faster attack. Other than that the overheads are just EQ'd with a BootEQmkII.

Other effects are as follows:

Bass drum: gate, EQ, comp
I tried to add a little something around 800 - 1000 Hz just as zero00 suggested.

Snare: Floorfish expander, bootEQmkII
I tried to revive the snare with the expander and tweaked the EQ a bit so it fitted better with the overheads.

The three tom channels go into the toms bus which sports BootEQmkII and gate.

All drum tracks (OH bus, BD, snare, tom bus) go into a drums bus for summing which then sends some drums signal to the reverb bus (tc electronic M30 reverb).

Bass: PushTec 5+1A EQ, Blockfish compressor, NASTYtableTop

Both Marshal tracks go into a marshal bus which is EQ'd via the PushTec 5+1A EQ. The marshal bus then goes panned slightly left into the guitar bus which in turn sends something down the reverb bus again just to keep the mix "on the same page" regarding reverb.

The Vox rhythm track uses the PushTec 5+1A EQ and for the intro part just a very slight amount of chorus (Kjaerhus Audio Classic Chorus). It goes straight into the guitar bus (slightly panned right). The "intro" was definitely too loud. I don't know why, but the fader was at 0dB. Must have been an accidental mouse click or something just before rendering. I tried to "unbury" the AC 30 by panning the rhythm guitars differently now. The Vox is more to the right whereas the Marshal is more on the left. I changed volumes and EQ slightly, too.

The lead guitar track is panned slightly left and uses a compressor and the PushTec 5+1A EQ again. It sends post fader to the lead fx bus for a delay (Kjaerhus Audio Classic Delay) and reverb (tc electronic M30) panned hard right. Both channels feed into the guitar bus again.

Background Vocals: Spitfish de-esser, comp
Vocals:Spitfish de-esser, comp, Antress ModernExciter, Kjaerhus Audio Classic Chorus

Everything except the bass sends some of its signal the reverb bus to keep the mix in the same room. The routing might seem a little over the top but I wanted to have some logical sums like marshal guitars, all guitars, toms and drums. It was easier for me to mix like that.

On the mains I use an EQ to remove some frequencies which can be responsible for "digital harshness". I reduced the gain at 2550Hz 3.5 dB and at 3800 2.7 dB with a bandwith of a 1/8 octave. I used the SSL X-ISM meter in the end of the chain to spot any distortion or intersample peaks and the mix peaks out at about -0.8 dB(FS?). Every plugin is free software (except the tc electronic M30 reverb, which is about 60 bucks if I remember correctly). Of course, reaper is another 60 bucks for private use but I have to say I really like what you can achieve with 120 bucks worth of software.

Here is the link.

Please let me know if I managed to make it worse Listening to it today on my living room consumer stuff I felt it sounded a little boomy, but that could be the room and the integrated active sub. With the Yamahas it sounded fine and I did an additional check via headphones (AKG K240 Studio) which sounded fine to me, too. What do you think?

Cheers
Tim

 

[Greg_L]

Not bad. Listening to the second mix. Really good performances. As a band yall knew what you were doing.

I think overall it's a pretty good mix, although I'd like to hear more kick. On songs like this I think the kick and snare should be about the same perceived loudness. While the snare doesn't sound fantastic, it's definitely got a good presence. Get the kick out there with it. I can tell the drummer is pretty inconsistent with his kick whacks, so maybe use some compression to even it out. The toms could be louder too. You got a nice overhead spread going, although the hats get lost. Again, inconsistent drumming. Not much you can about it though. I wouldn't recommend too much processing on the overhead tracks.

The guitars are cool, although they sound a little too similar and a little dark. Again, not much you can do about it now. Maybe try to bring out some "air" with EQ. The lead is cool, but it gets buried. Boost it and maybe add some delay or reverb on it to give it a different space than the rhythms.

The bass and vocals seem fine to me. I can't really hear the backing vox.

Cool song. Good job overall.

 

[timkroeger]

Hey

Not bad. Listening to the second mix. Really good performances. As a band yall knew what you were doing.

Greg, thanks for the compliments. I really liked what we did back then and it was pretty fun with the guys. Too bad the band broke up, that really sucked. I did a 3rd mix to try and make it better again. Let's hope I succeeded...

I think overall it's a pretty good mix, although I'd like to hear more kick. On songs like this I think the kick and snare should be about the same perceived loudness. While the snare doesn't sound fantastic, it's definitely got a good presence. Get the kick out there with it. I can tell the drummer is pretty inconsistent with his kick whacks, so maybe use some compression to even it out. The toms could be louder too. You got a nice overhead spread going, although the hats get lost. Again, inconsistent drumming. Not much you can about it though. I wouldn't recommend too much processing on the overhead tracks.

I raised the kick and did compress it a little more. The snare received a little more reverb and I think I like it better now especially after the inital riff. I raised the toms a few dB, too. Good thing I tracked a hihat channel back then, too and just didn't use it until now. I EQ'd it, compressed it a little, since the hihat kept wandering around and added it to the drums bus. I think it fits ok.

The guitars are cool, although they sound a little too similar and a little dark. Again, not much you can do about it now. Maybe try to bring out some "air" with EQ. The lead is cool, but it gets buried. Boost it and maybe add some delay or reverb on it to give it a different space than the rhythms.

Done. Just a little more dB and FX for the lead, as well as EQ for the rhythm guitar tracks.

The bass and vocals seem fine to me. I can't really hear the backing vox.

Yeah, I kept them a little low because I felt they were kind of cheasy but I raised them a little now. The backing vocals are only some doubled words and a small addition to chorus after the "I am the joker" line.

Cool song. Good job overall.

Again thanks a lot! And for listening!

Oh, here's the 3rd mix.

I did a 4th mix, too with some additional analog tape simulation and simple brickwall limiter for a little more loudness on the main bus. Just wanted to try and drive it against the wall to see what happens.

Cheers
Tim

 

[joeym]

The song's pretty good. Mix sounds a bit muffled on the whole, but considering when it was tracked, it's still not bad at all. Agree with all the guy's comments to the drums, guitars etc.

Joey