Room Upstairs

[robgreen]

Double handclaps - check
Ambivalence about vocals that an inordinate amount of time has already been spent on - check

Apologies if anyone's feeling a faint sense of deja vu here. I could do with some fresh ears on this one - am I close or still way off?

Any comments on recording/mix/song etc also much appreciated. Ta

 

[kcearl]

love it Rob, very Belle and Sebastian, the vocals were great...like the organ sound and the excellent little guitar solo


for me the vocals are a little too present at the beginning and the drums are too wet...but thats a personal preference..also at 1.00 the vocals come in a tad under volume...I really like your voice though


other than that a great tune man


btw double handclaps?? watch it, ive got that shit copyrighted

 

[robgreen]

Hey, thanks very much for listening kc. My ears are a bit jaded from this one, so I've lost my objectivity a bit-I'll revisit some of the levels. I think I pulled down the vocals a little at the 1.00 mark because with the organ & 4 guitar tracks coming in at the same time as well, it was all too overpowering.

First time I've written a guitar solo in a song, so glad it came out okay. I wanted to sound lean & wiry-like a kind of Stooges feel. Whether it did or not, I don't know?

Thanks for your kind words on the vocals too-like you I struggle to listen back!

The organ is a donationware b3 one. Can't remember what off the top of my head, but will check if you're interested. I think its got a great sound too.

Cheers man, I'll definitely address some of the mix comments

 

[heatmiser]

I love this one.

Better from a production standpoint than your previous tracks, but similar in terms of the feel of the song itself, and still somewhat lo-(normal?)-fi. Certainly more upbeat.

Your stuff sounds really simple on the surface, but I think you make great choices about what to include, and perhaps more importantly, what to exclude, so the simplicty really works for me. The change at around 1:00 is really cool, but I think your vocal should be at a higher level for that bit with everything else that comes in there.

Drums, guitars, organ and vocals all sound cool to me, but basically, I just really like the song.

 

[Clam Soup]

I love this one.

The change at around 1:00 is really cool, but I think your vocal should be at a higher level for that bit with everything else that comes in there.

Absolutely my thoughts too. Everything sounds great as far as time/pitch/tone/etc.... but, your voice gets washed out in the flood in that first transition and stays submerged all the way back to the accoustic outro. I'd definitely raise it a notch or two right through there.

 

[rayc]

The little guitar figure under the beginning could come up a little bit.
I particularly like the rhythm guitar sound.
basically what kc said.
& that goes for it being cool too!

 

[robgreen]

I love this one.

Better from a production standpoint than your previous tracks, but similar in terms of the feel of the song itself, and still somewhat lo-(normal?)-fi. Certainly more upbeat.

Your stuff sounds really simple on the surface, but I think you make great choices about what to include, and perhaps more importantly, what to exclude, so the simplicty really works for me. The change at around 1:00 is really cool, but I think your vocal should be at a higher level for that bit with everything else that comes in there.

Drums, guitars, organ and vocals all sound cool to me, but basically, I just really like the song.

Hey, thanks a lot Pete both for the critique and the nice comments. I'm just glad to have finally something else ready to post up.

I've been really trying to focus on the production side of the mixes recently, so good to hear that some progress is being made. Like you, I like the warmth of sound on the more lo-fi end of the spectrum, but don't want to sound amateurish or muddy.

Thanks for the comment on making choices, that's good to hear. Hope you've got something in the pipeline

Absolutely my thoughts too. Everything sounds great as far as time/pitch/tone/etc.... but, your voice gets washed out in the flood in that first transition and stays submerged all the way back to the accoustic outro. I'd definitely raise it a notch or two right through there.

Cheers Clam Soup - thanks a lot for taking the time to listen and comment. The comments are all saying pretty much the same thing I think, which is good - I needed the input to get an objective view back. I think the challenge has been to make that change up at the 1:00 mark without the leap being too great. I had an earlier mix, but worried the vocal might be too dominant - I'll revisit and update the mix this weekend

The little guitar figure under the beginning could come up a little bit.
I particularly like the rhythm guitar sound.
basically what kc said.
& that goes for it being cool too!

Thanks to you too rayc, it's kind of you to say. I'd thought of the little guitar figure as more texture to the song than an element in it's own right, but I'll have a look over the weekend.

Is it the acoustic or the electric rhythm that you liked? I bought a 30 year old aria pro ii semi about a year ago and I just absolutely love the tone on it. I was going to post a pic of it on here, but I need to work out how to get the photo off my phone first.

Cheers for the input folks, I'm chuffed to hear the song & vocals work and the mix isn't too far off - I'll post up an updated version soon with these comments incorporated

 

[Manslick]

It's a nice tune Rob and the vocals sound best yet. I could make out every lovely word this time. I always enjoy your tunes because they have an old world vibe to them.

But I kept waiting for a change from the D-A pattern. Just for kicks, toward the passage, "many years from now", try using a Bm to F#m to G at that turn around. You'll have to figure out where these chords go and I know you will do a better job than me of placing them.

I'm chiding you on your comment about choruses. Ha ha.

 

[toad_uk]

Only critisism I have is the vocals getting lost when the song blasts out. I like the wet drums, reminds me of Boogie with Stu (I think that's the one) off Led Zeppelin's Physical Grafitti, but with a bit more oomph. Good one. Oh and I partcularly like your organ. Organ sound that is

 

[PDP]

I really liked this tune, I love the Trash Can drum beat, it hammers the grove along in a catchy way.

No nits here, I think it works the way it is.

Nice work Rob.

 

[robgreen]

It's a nice tune Rob and the vocals sound best yet. I could make out every lovely word this time. I always enjoy your tunes because they have an old world vibe to them.

But I kept waiting for a change from the D-A pattern. Just for kicks, toward the passage, "many years from now", try using a Bm to F#m to G at that turn around. You'll have to figure out where these chords go and I know you will do a better job than me of placing them.

I'm chiding you on your comment about choruses. Ha ha.

Heh heh, I had wondered whether anyone would pick me up on the fact that this was a song looking vainly for a third chord. I think it's because it's the first song where I've written where the lyrics and melody were completely written before the music. Normally it's the other way round - so I was trying to get down something that I already had completely in my head. If I ever re-track, I'll have a play round with the chords.

I tried to keep some tonal interest by playing the chords in different positions and having some of the guitars are in standard tuning and some in an Open D. I've had a few prog comparisons on previous works - I'm tempted to invent a new sub-genre on my next one...two chord prog...

Thanks for your kind words Manslick and I'm glad progress is being made on tracking/mixing. Cheers man

Only critisism I have is the vocals getting lost when the song blasts out. I like the wet drums, reminds me of Boogie with Stu (I think that's the one) off Led Zeppelin's Physical Grafitti, but with a bit more oomph. Good one. Oh and I partcularly like your organ. Organ sound that is

Cheers toad - I'm working on a bit of mix rebalancing before I put this one to bed, so I'll give the vocals a wee shove when it all kicks in. I don't know any of Physical Grafitti, but I just listened to Boogie With Stu on youtube - that is a nice song, so I'm chuffed. I can hear what you mean on the drums. I love III and IV dearly, so it looks like I need to get a copy of that album.

My organ is freely available on the net by the way...you just have to know where to look...

Thanks very much for listening man

I really liked this tune, I love the Trash Can drum beat, it hammers the grove along in a catchy way.

No nits here, I think it works the way it is.

Nice work Rob.

Thanks a lot for taking the time to listen and comment Pete - I added a little saturation to the drums to get the feel I was after, so glad they work. The feedback's been really encouraging for this one, so thanks - I really appreciate it. EDIT - I've given rep to those I'm permitted to, sadly that aint that many of youse...

By the way, been a complimentary comment or two about the guitar sound. Here's a couple of pics of the guitar I used. It's been a great addition to the stable:

 

[PDP]

I cant read the headstock, whats the model?

Are you a lefty? or are the pictures mirrored or something?

 

[robgreen]

I cant read the headstock, whats the model?

Are you a lefty? or are the pictures mirrored or something?

Yeah, I'm a lefty - which is a massive hassle when it comes to buying/sharing guitars etc.

The guitar is an Aria Pro II from around 1980ish. Not a top price model, but I really like the sound from it.

 

[Clam Soup]

Yeah, I'm a lefty - which is a massive hassle when it comes to buying/sharing guitars etc.

I am teminally left-handed but play a right handed guitar.... could never imagine my right hand being smart enough to make a single chord. ..... but it can hold a pick and smack the strings around....sort of.

Fishing reels and bolt action rifles are bigger issues for me.

 

[Greg_L]

I think the vocal levels are okay when the song gets rolling, they're just not clear. They sound muffled and lack air and presence. Maybe that's the sound you're going for, but they sound like you're singing into a pillow with a mouth full of marbles. Everything else sounds cool. I like the bombastic drums.

 

[robgreen]

I think the vocal levels are okay when the song gets rolling, they're just not clear. They sound muffled and lack air and presence. Maybe that's the sound you're going for, but they sound like you're singing into a pillow with a mouth full of marbles. Everything else sounds cool. I like the bombastic drums.

Hey, thanks a lot Grey. Your drums always sound excellent, so I'll take that as high praise. You're right on the vocals - looking back at the settings, there was a brick wall eq cut of everything over about 5khz. Understandable that there wasn't much presence to them in that case - I don't want too much as I think the vocal needs to sound taut rather than airy, but the lack of presence seemed to become too noticable once all the other instruments came in around the same frequencies. Cheers man

I've done a few minor changes to the mix based on the feedback from here:
- bringing down the first verse vocal a touch
- bringing the guitar riff pattern in the first verse up a little
- not cutting the 5khz+ vocal frequencies as harshly
- bringing up the vol in the vocal from 1.00 onwards up a bit and reducing the wetness on the reverb
- bringing the backing vocals up slightly
- I looked at reducing some of the wetness on the drums, but they lost a little of their impact and trashy edge, so I left them as they were.

I think it's brought the mix together a bit more, so I reckon this one might be done now - if anyone could take a moment to listen to the updated one and let me know, that would be cool. Cheers y'all

 

[jimmys69]

I just had a chance to listen to both versions. This last one is definitely better, though I feel a bit of sub frequencies that make it tough to listen to on my system. The kick is ringing at 40hz or so. Maybe a HPF there. Otherwise, I really like the song and the vocals don't sound buried in a pillow now. Good stuff.

 

[robgreen]

I just had a chance to listen to both versions. This last one is definitely better, though I feel a bit of sub frequencies that make it tough to listen to on my system. The kick is ringing at 40hz or so. Maybe a HPF there. Otherwise, I really like the song and the vocals don't sound buried in a pillow now. Good stuff.

Cool, thanks a lot Jimmy. One of the big balancing acts I've found with this mix was mixing the low frequencies so that they sounded fat and full bodied without muffling the song. I ended up sacrificing a little clarity in the bass to keep the guitar sound, but hadn't noticed that on the kick. I'll see if a HPF resolves it this evening.

Thanks for your kind words on the rest of the mix too

 

[jimmys69]

Low end is always a problem. At least it is the area that seems to create the most issues. Well, aside from good performance. You got talent. Getting the recording to reflect it is the challenge.

When I shut down my sub, I hear that the bass guitar lacks the low end. Kick is consuming all of your sub 100hz space. Seems the kick and bass are not syncing with each other. If I were working this mix, I would play with eq on both in 60-200 range. Cutting one and boosting the other (frequency of bass and kick). Find the sweet spot there, and the mix should open up a bit.

 

[kcearl]

good advice from Jimmy there...the second mix is far better than the first one, the vocals in the second part come in much better


low end is the hardest part of mixing by far, Im only ever two mixes away from thinking I need to go back and fix the low end