Remix Opinions

Nola

Nola

Well-known member
Hey guys, I reworked this mix from back in August. Sorry if I post the same song sometimes - I'm working on these mixes slowly over time and lose the original threads, and when I get close to finished I like to run the new mix by the forum. Apologies if it's annoying.

https://soundcloud.com/suicidevan/poland/s-9qmHm



Can you tell me how the balance and all sounds? Mainly it was hard to mix two vocals like that, and does it work with everything else going on? There are like 6 guitars so I was trying to make them all audible and supporting some element (like rhythm or acting as a pad, etc) but also trying to make it vacant sounding at the same time. Dunno. It sucked to mix and took forever so hopefully it's close.

I really wanted that guitar going on behind the vocals and found it nearly impossible to place, so let me know how that's sitting now. I also added a backward cymbal for some reason. Does the backward cymbal suck? For some reason I liked it on that off beat but I'm open to removing it if it sucks.

Thanks!
 
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Sounds pretty good. Bass could come up a little in my opinion. There's just a moment at the end of the next-to-last verse where the bass jumps out. Sounded good. I'd like to hear that throughout the song. Overall I was listening mainly to the vocals. The doubled male and female vocals are interesting, but I feel like the two are competing with each other. It makes it a bit harder to pick out the lyrics. I'd pick one as your lead and then lower the level of the other, not completely, but to the point where it is in a supporting role. I assume you would be lower her vocal. Maybe pan her out a little ways too, so the two voices aren't right on top of each other.

Anyway, minor nits. Overall really good job.
 
Thanks, Robus. Yeah I dunno about the mix. It feels close but a few things bug me. I think the distortion needs some EQ because it's somewhat harsh and I don't know if the two vocals work. If not, I need to redo mine because it's not very good. I kinda like the duel vocals for mood but I'm thinking maybe a single vocal and just redo the take. I'm not a fan of the bass tone, either. It's a little too flabby and lacking definition. It's clearly there but just flabbing around not adding much.
 
I think the doubled vocals could work. Experiment with the level and panning of the female vocal before you give up on it.
 
Cool, Robus, yeah I will sleep on it.
I redid the bass line tonight and like it more. Better tone and definition. (It's not in the original file, but I'll include that in any updates to the thread).
 
The guitars aren't as smoothed out as I remember. is that right? is there more treble or presence in them?

How are you compressing your vocals? I'd make sure to use the fastest release possible on them, they are already so low in volume and energy that a long release will bring them down more in volume and harder to hear all the nuances.
 
andrushkiwt said:
The guitars aren't as smoothed out as I remember. is that right? is there more treble or presence in them?
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Exactly. I think it's that I turned down the l/r guitars more to open the mix, and then all the sudden all the buzzy guitars were now too present. I need to EQ the high end off of them. I liked it at first, but then after listening more it grated on me.

I used (mild) limiting on the final, which I never do, but I wanted to give it a try. I feel like it always makes things harsh, so I think that might be part of it, but mostly it's the leads/distortion are all more bare now. Frustrating!

I worked on EQ last night and re-tracked bass, so hopefully i will have a new one up soon.
 
The only thing I'm not fussy about is the lead that plays during verse 1 (and 3?). Not sure what else could go there - but I did like the tone you used for that short snippet in the intro (i.e clean / bright). The current lead isn't bad it's just a bit distracting and maybe a bit repetitive. It works ok at 2:00 by itself. Something I do once in a while is chop out sections of a lead part so it's not continuous, just pops in here and there, but it is tricky and cross fading can be challenging.

At 2:50 the OD guitar is a good choice, I doubt an eq will do much to "change" it if you find it too distorted. Once it's printed it's pretty much there. You can try though.

At 3:00, that verse is cool for me as it focuses on the vocals but doesn't lose the flow/volume/feel. And that lead part is gone during the singing :) I would "maybe" turn the OD guitars back just a touch and pull up the other guitars. You'll have to try it and see if you like it and it keeps the vibe you want.

At 4:00 something cuts out and there's a bit of a sonic dropout. I might keep that going until the end.

Other than the lead part, the rest sits ok for me level wise, so don't overthink this one too hard or you'll drive yourself crazy.
 
Nola said:
...I used (mild) limiting on the final, which I never do, but I wanted to give it a try. I feel like it always makes things harsh...
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well, that's certainly not true. every commercial album has been limited. no time to practice applying it like today!
 
Overall there's a buildup somewhere around 200-250Hz. Below that it drops off. The combined effect for me is that it sounds congested but still lacking fullness in the low end. The balance is mostly good despite that 200-250Hz thing. You could almost get away with eq on the whole mix, but fixing it on tracks has more potential for improvement.

It could use more kick. To me it sounds like kick-kick snare, kick-kick snare. The bass may need to come up if you raise the kick.
 
There's a new mix in the OP.

Thanks, Boulder and Ido for the detailed feedback. I heard that 200hz buildup, too, and I retracked the bass b/c I think it was the issue. The bass should be clearer and less buildup on the new mix. I added a half db of kick as well let me know if that helped in conjunction with the clearer bass.

I made the following changes:

1. Lowered the lead guitar during the vocal so it's not fighting the vocal (it might be too low now?).
2. Retracked the bass (one take, zero edits so look for groove issues).
3. Centered my vocal and lowered my gf's vocal so she's almost acting like a "pad"...barely audible but giving aura (and supporting my pitch issues).
4. EQ'd the distorted guitars to hopefully be a little less harsh
5. Compressed the vocal a bit more per andru's suggestion. I feel it might be too loud now in the mix, but I'm not too worried about the vocal at this point b/c I might redo it.

I didn't use any limiting on this one yet so it might be quieter.
 
It's quieter but that's fine. The bass and kick changes helped. A bit more of both would be okay with me.

I still get the urge to scoop the whole mix. The snare, guitars and vocal seem to be the main culprits.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
It's quieter but that's fine. The bass and kick changes helped. A bit more of both would be okay with me.

I still get the urge to scoop the whole mix. The snare, guitars and vocal seem to be the main culprits.
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Thanks, Boulder. Well that's good the bass redo helped.
That's weird about the desire to scoop b/c I EQ'd all the guitar HP pretty aggressively. e.g., the acoustic is HP at 400hz. The left one has the palm resting on the bridge, which is giving a bit of thud. But I EQd it at 200hz.

I feel like it might be the bass and kick causing that buildup. I will look into them. I'm not good at EQing either of those instruments b/c I don't really play them and know the nuances.
 
Sometimes I hear the bass as the low end of the guitars, so you could be right. Maybe cut some 250Hz (guessing) on the bass instead. I'm pretty sure about snare and vocals having too much of something near 250Hz. Those two could use a low shelf cut from 250Hz (or whatever it turns out to be) down.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Sometimes I hear the bass as the low end of the guitars, so you could be right. Maybe cut some 250Hz (guessing) on the bass instead. I'm pretty sure about snare and vocals having too much of something near 250Hz. Those two could use a low shelf cut from 250Hz (or whatever it turns out to be) down.
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Boulder, you were so close. 193hz on bass was overly prominent. I had to notch it a lot, like -8db. Is that normal? I might be able to remove more but curious to hear if you think that helped.

Hopefully it takes some of that haze of mud off it. I also HP the vocal at 250hz. It might be too aggressive? Let me know what you think.

I uploaded the new file in the original post.
 
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Definitely better. If it needed 8dB of cut then so be it. The vocals seem to have taken the HPF well but you might try a low shelf instead. I imagine myself using a steep HPF at 90, a shelf cut from 300-400 to offset proximity effect and/or room effect, and a medium width notch at whatever frequency (200-ish) is making the mud.

It could be a simple matter of adding HF all around. I boosted the treble control on my playback system almost all the way and the whole thing came to life.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Definitely better. If it needed 8dB of cut then so be it. The vocals seem to have taken the HPF well but you might try a low shelf instead. I imagine myself using a steep HPF at 90, a shelf cut from 300-400 to offset proximity effect and/or room effect, and a medium width notch at whatever frequency (200-ish) is making the mud.

It could be a simple matter of adding HF all around. I boosted the treble control on my playback system almost all the way and the whole thing came to life.
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Cool, thanks Boulder. I'll tinker a little more, but I think you helped nail a main issue I wasn't hearing properly but could feel, which was that mud.
I need to add volume to it, and maybe I don't know how to limit properly, but it seems it always boosts the highs a lot (I think it's due to fletcher munson and sensitivity to those frequencies but it could also be b/c I'm doing it wrong). So I always wind up mixing dark. Plus it reminds me of analog.
 
I wonder if your monitoring is brighter than normal. That mix by andrushkiwt you though was brittle seemed about right to me.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I wonder if your monitoring is brighter than normal. That mix by andrushkiwt you though was brittle seemed about right to me.
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It could be. I only have headphones b/c of my living situation. They're Seinhessier HD580s, which at the time they came out where thought to be nice and flat for monitoring.
 
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I like this. Kind of has a The Pillows vibe, or maybe a calmer Shinobu song.

The only thing that really stuck out to me as that some of the leads aren't sitting quite as well as they could. The siren-like one under the vocals feels pretty buried for e.g.
They're all panned pretty mono. If you spread them out a little more, you might have more wiggle room to turn things up.
 
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