ok...I am going to try and

mixmkr

we don't need rest!!
make sure I phrase and state this carefully.

It seems to me that there ARE many very talanted people here, and the mixes and songs are good proof of that. However, it seems that either the posted song needs either (1) a fair amount of work, fix timing issues, tune the gtrs, ditch the Casio drum machine.. OR (2)the song is just 5 stars fantastic. There seems to be no middle ground. I can appreciate the quality that some of the more gifted people are putting out, but many of the threads become a gushfest it seems.

Am I being an asshole to mention this...or ? On a couple of threads, I feel I had some comments to offer as constructive ideas, but instead did not respond because the previous 20 posters just said it was fantastic.. "Don't change a thing" is a typical response. I feel my post would have just made me a dickhead...(probably like this post is doing), and it is starting to make me 2nd guess my own ears, (to some extent). I've even had my shit jumped a couple times because of this (I know), but it seems changing my way of responding might be for the best...less traffic against the flow. However honestly, I feel that just "sugar coating" a response is potentially nice to read, but really does the writer no good...and maybe actually does more harm than good, by making the writer think they are the next "Jimi Hendrix" (which I know we all don't think we are...but you get the idea).

I fear giving specific examples, but they're a half dozen or so now floating around that I feel fit into this catagory. I've noticed that some people don't acknowledge my replies now either...

oh well...:confused:

one last thing...I realize there may be many people who will respond to this and say; " I could never be THAT good...or I DO think the song is awesome"...but is it REALLY awesome?

and...one more last thing. This place basically comprimises 90% of my music listening nowadays... and when I hear something MUSICALLY challenging somewhere else, I DO notice a difference between that and the stuff in the clinic. If anyone listens to NPR, and the jazz show with Maryann McPartle (sp?), her show (Piano talk) its almost ALWAYS awesome. The same with the Saturday show "Front Porch" with some of the most kick ass playing you've ever heard...from reletive nobodies to Leo Kotkee's. If Leo Kotkee (again..spelling?) posted in here, I think we would all faint. but then, maybe not... And yes..I realize this is the mp3 mixing clinic and NOT the mp3 playing clinic.

thanks ..especially if you've read this far... no flames intended PLEASE
 
Here is my 100% pure gut response to this: I would have never posted my songs in here if I thought I couldn't get a fair assessment of what I had to offer. I have to agree somewhat with what your saying. Truth is, if I wanted someone to gush over my work I suppose I could play it for my mother. She loves all of it. But I also know I've seen a fair amount of criticism through these boards that offer encouragement as well as feedback. I, for one, think it's good to hear both. I don't know...just my opinion.

And I certainly don't think you're an asshole for bringing it up...
 
I feel ya, mix.... we're in the same boat, I think. We both tend to be a bit more scrutinizing in our critiques... but you know... different people have different tastes, and different musical/recording comprehension levels. One person's "amazing song/mix" may be another person's "needs some work".

I agree aboot the "gushing" thing though... I have noticed that there's a lot less "hey... maybe tweak this git, or that vocal" and a lot more "oh... my... gawd!!!.. you are the shizit... da bomb... I bow down before your mastery!!!"


:p


I must admit... I've been a little lax lately in my in-depth critiques... usually I'll just say, "that was real good" or whatever....


but that's just cause I'm lazy.


:D


WATYF
 
naaa....if your not honest what the fuck good is it??..i can appreciate something that may not be the best song you ever heard but still took the time to critically listen anyways....hell i have a hard time doing that....(country music for the most part)....to me im not or never will be ..or never wanted to be a great "mixer"...i know a certain amount is involved...but still...to me the clinic is about getting feedback on the song as "content"..now i know its not SUPPOSED to be that... but for me it is...so post it if you got it....lol....ive been around long enough to know how you respond...maybe some others might seem "put off" and thats why they arent responding...dunno?..i DO KNOW that on songs that i post that strike you in some way the response is wwaaaayyy more in depth on our part but thats what everyone does isnt it??...

no worries

jamal
 
mixmkr:

No, No. I noticed you began being pretty critical since 2-3 months ago(well, before that, too), and I really liked that cuz your posts were the only helpful posts in many long threads.
I remember you spitting some nasty comments about some of my tunes mixing and musically, it wasn't pleasing, but better for me in the long run.

Keep it up, and I will join you

This is a fantastic post, I wouldn't change a thing:D

AL
 
I promise to be an unrelenting jerk going forward so others may learn from my harsh criticisms.







Unless Crawdad posts then I reserve the right to gush. :p
 
Last edited:
I just read this after I posted my first mix ever, and I was hesitant to do so because everything i listen to in hear sounds pretty good to my ears (I am not only a newbie in posts, but also in recording).

If anyone wants to listen to something they can bash to heck with no praise... feel free to check out the tune i posted.
 
You're right on the money mixmkr.I have noticed that you're not posting in the clinic as much as you used to and this post explains why.

Dont stop analyzing songs the way you do!You're one of only a handful of people here that is right on target with your advice 99% of the time.
Im more of an analyzer of a songs in a commercial sense.I pay more attention to melody,singing/playing ability,harmonies,hooks etc(The kind of stuff jamal said he's looking for here)....I havent been doing this stuff long enough to give solid mix suggestions....sure,I can give some of the obvious mix suggestions but so can just about everyone else that posts here that has a musical ear.....Im finally getting into computer software for mixing so I am getting a little better.:eek:


If you see a a gush fest going on in a thread and you KNOW there are problems with the mix,then dont hesitate to bring us ALL back down to earth man!:D

Sam is a prime example(there are many others) of someone who has made leaps and bounds in the last year with his recordings and I think your advice is part of the reason for that.You took a liking to him as soon as he started posting here and made a lot of suggestions when commenting on his tunes.Thats just one example and sam still might take all the credit himself :D,but you along with the other seasoned musician/recording enthusiast around here have helped a lot of people improve in the short time I've been posting here.

You are a solid rock of advice around this place man,dont change a thing in the way you post.

Kramer

p.s. I do listen to a lot of the NPR programs on the weekends and the musicians on their ARE awsome far above any description of the word awsome that is used here.(even by myself)

Leo Kotke is a master of the 12 string guitar.
 
I'll second Kramer on not wanting you to change your critiqueing style. The best part of this clinic is the large range of veiwpoints you can get on your work. There are all sorts of different approaches to it and it's useful to read them all.
I tend to point out things that jump right out at me because I rarely have time to do an in depth examination of a song. And I have a wide tolerance for various ways of mixing something. To me, there are always dozens of different ways you could mix a song and all of them could be made to sound good. So I'm not bothered by relatively minor details.....it's the biggies that matter to me.
You, on the other hand, like to get into the fine details of a mix and lord knows....we need your ears to help straighten out the problems that we can hear but don't know what's causing it.

And I've never thought you came off as mean-spirited. You simply say what you hear. So keep on keepin' on man.
 
I think the main problem I have lately is it's getting so crowded here, that when I put rough ideas out, they're expected to be full blown productions and dissapointing when they're not. And the thread is gone by the time I can actually get feedback on the question I am actually asking.
I'm honestly thinking of looking for new forums to make room for all the new guys here. And don't get me wrong, the more the merrier. But it's like going from a 15 student class to a 150 student class.

I agree with mix, that this has become show and no tell. I don't feel that there is the type of in-depth discussion here that there could be. Most of what you get is that was cool, or I didn't care for that. Well why didn't you care for it? What would you have done?

And if you would have received those types of feedback, it's lost because you get bumped by a fucking "Why is NWR so slow today" thread.


Maybe we need another clinic....
 
On the other hand, mixmkr, I'm guessing that a lot of people are learning more from you they admit. Those people who are ignoring your responses are probably often applying your suggestions. There is going to be some pride here. There are going to be people how post their songs in shameless self promotion and are shocked that someone actually has real suggestions, that in fact their stuff could actually improve.
 
mixmkr said:
I fear giving specific examples, but they're a half dozen or so now floating around that I feel fit into this catagory.



I think I need an example because I'm not feeling this thread AT ALL..



First of all mix, you don't comment 1/3 as much as you used to..

Second, your comments are not what they used to be IMOP..

Third, if I say something is great, I think it is.. I don't say it too often, but when I do, I think it's true..

Let's use Sluice as an example.. On his last post, you were saying that you didn't care for the song etc.. Those comments are not helpful.. I doubt Sluice, or myself for that matter, are concerned with who likes the song content or not.. Yes it's nice when people say they like the song or whatever, but people here sometimes try to dictate how or what a person should be writing.. I happen to have LOVED that last thing Sluice put up.. Why shouldn't I have said so? The recording was better than 95% of the stuff that comes through here, and I loved the song.. Both of those things = "WOW! That was great/awesome!"

Yes you have helped a lot of people in the past..

In the past..

So have I..


Not to sound like a total asshole, but maybe all of our ears are slipping..


one last thing...I realize there may be many people who will respond to this and say; " I could never be THAT good...or I DO think the song is awesome"...but is it REALLY awesome?


YES.. If I said it was, than I think it is..


You sound like your getting bitter to me..


Everyone may think I'm an asshole for this post, but again, who cares..

I have met many cool people here, but that has not, nor ever will change the fact that the reason I come here is to analyze/think/ and breathe music and the recording process..

There ARE some AWESOME songs here..

yes really....

Awesome..


I don't really care about NPR.. If I want to listen to real music, I'll pop in a CD..

I want to analyze other peoples home recordings..



maybe I missed something, or maybe you could give an example of something that was called 'awesome' and wasn't..


If you can say you didn't like a song, why is it not o.k. for someone else to think it was awesome?

your opinion------------------------------------------------- someone elses opinion


no offense brother..
 
I'm with Sam. I don't like NPR either; there's some absolute shit on there. I mean, I don't wanna' give any examples or anything...lol.
 
I totally agree with A1.... this thread is awesome... I've never read a thread quite this awesome before...!!! You da man, mix! Don't change a thing!



:D ;) :p


And Sam... I think it's just a matter of perspective. To a seasoned jazz musician, Avril Lavigne is total crap... to a 14 year old who likes punk music and spends all his time on a skateboard, she's amazing. Now,.. I know that's an extreme example... but what I'm saying is, I don't doubt there are people who think certain stuff around here is "awesome", while there are others who think that the exact same stuff really needs work to reach its full potential. That's just the way musical taste/experience differences work.


I do understand what mix is saying, though... I honestly think we're slowly lowering the bar. Every time someone comes along who can put together a halfway decent mix, they get inundated with comments about how amazing it is, and how those commenting could never do better, etc. etc. etc... But what we need is a constant challenge to do better... to push the limit... to raise the bar...

and it's hard to do that when 9 out of 10 replies in a thread are gushing about how great the song is. I just experienced that myself... there was a song that I listened to and I wanted to comment about an aspect of the song that I thought seriously detracted from the recording, but I just held back because there was so much "This is amazing!" going on... so yeah... I understand what he's talking aboot... it can get intimidating in situations like that... Now,... should I have been intimidated...?? No.



...but I think it's important to remind everyone every once in a while that it's good to post very in-depth critiques. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to say "that's amazing"... what I am saying is that we should be encouraging the more "harsh" critiques... People should have no hesitation to post exactly what they thought needed work in a mix, regardless of how great everyone else thought it was...


So... should we put a cap on the "gushing"...? No... I don't think so...


I think we should just keep in mind that no aspiring musician or recording engineer ever learned anything from hearing "you're awesome".


WATYF
 
B.SABBATH said:
chris, you were the furthest thing from my mind when I typed that..
lmao...I know that, man. Just trying to add some humor. All this weird white stuff fell out of the sky last night, so I figure the end of the world is near. This thread is just another sign.
 
Re: Re: ok...I am going to try and

B.SABBATH said:
I think I need an example because I'm not feeling this thread AT ALL..



:D ...dude, I love that about you!

Mix,
I hear you regarding critical mix suggestions. To me they are worth their weight in gold. ...but a little gushing has its place as well. Ive heard huge improvements by people from here that were just HUGE. I like to compare peoples posts with their previous work.... and those occasions of improvement are gush worthy. Besides, NOBODY in here hasnt thrown a gush to pat a buddy on the back.;) :)

Btw: your suggestion on my last one improved the song 100% (imo):), and I totally appreciate your critique when its as critical as it can be .

The class size thing Sluice mentioned is a big factor.... .and try it with a dial-up:mad: :rolleyes: :D
 
I fear mixmkr is reffering to me. I have been gushing all over this forum....It's true! But the TRUTH is, is that I am really amazed at the quality of recordings here. And the quality of the writing. I don't mean to "brown nose" anybody, but I really have a lot of respect for what some people are doing. I am a true novice when it comes to recording.
I feel like a new guitar student taking lessons from Jeff Beck. I think a LOT of people have responded critically to my posts. Certainly, they will encourage me, but they will also tell me they don't like the bass sound, or something's too loud or not loud enough....Lots of feedback which has been very helpful to me. I have given negative feedback as well, but I'm not going to be mean about it. Everybody here seems to be very decent, and I see no need to tell someone "that sucks." I wouldn't post anything here that wasn't the truth for me.
I certainly don't see you as an a@#hole....I would like your comments as well, negative or positive. I came here to learn. I'm sorry if I compliment too much, but it is sincere.
 
And I'll Add Something Else, Too

Like Jamal & Kramer pointed out...there are some of us here who are more confident giving opinions about how to make a song better by looking at the song instead of the mix...I'm one of them. Sometimes I have mix ideas, most of the time I don't, and maybe those of us who look at songs that way get a little lazy and wait for Mixmkr to come along and talk about the instruments that do/don't work, for TripleM to point out the out of sync vocals, for B.SABBATH to point out the hardware that's too loud/soft, etc., and for WATYF to point out everything else, lol.

If a song's good, I'm gonna' say so. If I don't like it, I'm almost NEVER gonna' say that, b/c the song part of the mix is almost always totally subjective...unless somebody specifically asks for songwriting help, I'll confine my comments to those of the mix variety. If people are "intimidated" by some "atta boys" in a thread...well, that's just fucking weird, lol.

PRIME EXAMPLE...Jamal recently wrote a song that I like a lot...somebody should have told him that it was bunched up in the low mids, and that there was sibilance and a general lack of overall low end. Thread's gone now. Hrm. But we've got this one.
 
Back
Top