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Thread: ok...I am going to try and

  1. #1
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    ok...I am going to try and

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    make sure I phrase and state this carefully.

    It seems to me that there ARE many very talanted people here, and the mixes and songs are good proof of that. However, it seems that either the posted song needs either (1) a fair amount of work, fix timing issues, tune the gtrs, ditch the Casio drum machine.. OR (2)the song is just 5 stars fantastic. There seems to be no middle ground. I can appreciate the quality that some of the more gifted people are putting out, but many of the threads become a gushfest it seems.

    Am I being an asshole to mention this...or ? On a couple of threads, I feel I had some comments to offer as constructive ideas, but instead did not respond because the previous 20 posters just said it was fantastic.. "Don't change a thing" is a typical response. I feel my post would have just made me a dickhead...(probably like this post is doing), and it is starting to make me 2nd guess my own ears, (to some extent). I've even had my shit jumped a couple times because of this (I know), but it seems changing my way of responding might be for the best...less traffic against the flow. However honestly, I feel that just "sugar coating" a response is potentially nice to read, but really does the writer no good...and maybe actually does more harm than good, by making the writer think they are the next "Jimi Hendrix" (which I know we all don't think we are...but you get the idea).

    I fear giving specific examples, but they're a half dozen or so now floating around that I feel fit into this catagory. I've noticed that some people don't acknowledge my replies now either...

    oh well...

    one last thing...I realize there may be many people who will respond to this and say; " I could never be THAT good...or I DO think the song is awesome"...but is it REALLY awesome?

    and...one more last thing. This place basically comprimises 90% of my music listening nowadays... and when I hear something MUSICALLY challenging somewhere else, I DO notice a difference between that and the stuff in the clinic. If anyone listens to NPR, and the jazz show with Maryann McPartle (sp?), her show (Piano talk) its almost ALWAYS awesome. The same with the Saturday show "Front Porch" with some of the most kick ass playing you've ever heard...from reletive nobodies to Leo Kotkee's. If Leo Kotkee (again..spelling?) posted in here, I think we would all faint. but then, maybe not... And yes..I realize this is the mp3 mixing clinic and NOT the mp3 playing clinic.

    thanks ..especially if you've read this far... no flames intended PLEASE

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    Here is my 100% pure gut response to this: I would have never posted my songs in here if I thought I couldn't get a fair assessment of what I had to offer. I have to agree somewhat with what your saying. Truth is, if I wanted someone to gush over my work I suppose I could play it for my mother. She loves all of it. But I also know I've seen a fair amount of criticism through these boards that offer encouragement as well as feedback. I, for one, think it's good to hear both. I don't know...just my opinion.

    And I certainly don't think you're an asshole for bringing it up...

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    I feel ya, mix.... we're in the same boat, I think. We both tend to be a bit more scrutinizing in our critiques... but you know... different people have different tastes, and different musical/recording comprehension levels. One person's "amazing song/mix" may be another person's "needs some work".

    I agree aboot the "gushing" thing though... I have noticed that there's a lot less "hey... maybe tweak this git, or that vocal" and a lot more "oh... my... gawd!!!.. you are the shizit... da bomb... I bow down before your mastery!!!"





    I must admit... I've been a little lax lately in my in-depth critiques... usually I'll just say, "that was real good" or whatever....


    but that's just cause I'm lazy.





    WATYF

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    naaa....if your not honest what the fuck good is it??..i can appreciate something that may not be the best song you ever heard but still took the time to critically listen anyways....hell i have a hard time doing that....(country music for the most part)....to me im not or never will be ..or never wanted to be a great "mixer"...i know a certain amount is involved...but still...to me the clinic is about getting feedback on the song as "content"..now i know its not SUPPOSED to be that... but for me it is...so post it if you got it....lol....ive been around long enough to know how you respond...maybe some others might seem "put off" and thats why they arent responding...dunno?..i DO KNOW that on songs that i post that strike you in some way the response is wwaaaayyy more in depth on our part but thats what everyone does isnt it??...

    no worries

    jamal

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    Thumbs up

    mixmkr:

    No, No. I noticed you began being pretty critical since 2-3 months ago(well, before that, too), and I really liked that cuz your posts were the only helpful posts in many long threads.
    I remember you spitting some nasty comments about some of my tunes mixing and musically, it wasn't pleasing, but better for me in the long run.

    Keep it up, and I will join you

    This is a fantastic post, I wouldn't change a thing

    AL

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    I promise to be an unrelenting jerk going forward so others may learn from my harsh criticisms.







    Unless Crawdad posts then I reserve the right to gush.
    Last edited by Middleman; 02-25-2003 at 00:17.

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    I just read this after I posted my first mix ever, and I was hesitant to do so because everything i listen to in hear sounds pretty good to my ears (I am not only a newbie in posts, but also in recording).

    If anyone wants to listen to something they can bash to heck with no praise... feel free to check out the tune i posted.

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    You're right on the money mixmkr.I have noticed that you're not posting in the clinic as much as you used to and this post explains why.

    Dont stop analyzing songs the way you do!You're one of only a handful of people here that is right on target with your advice 99% of the time.
    Im more of an analyzer of a songs in a commercial sense.I pay more attention to melody,singing/playing ability,harmonies,hooks etc(The kind of stuff jamal said he's looking for here)....I havent been doing this stuff long enough to give solid mix suggestions....sure,I can give some of the obvious mix suggestions but so can just about everyone else that posts here that has a musical ear.....Im finally getting into computer software for mixing so I am getting a little better.


    If you see a a gush fest going on in a thread and you KNOW there are problems with the mix,then dont hesitate to bring us ALL back down to earth man!

    Sam is a prime example(there are many others) of someone who has made leaps and bounds in the last year with his recordings and I think your advice is part of the reason for that.You took a liking to him as soon as he started posting here and made a lot of suggestions when commenting on his tunes.Thats just one example and sam still might take all the credit himself ,but you along with the other seasoned musician/recording enthusiast around here have helped a lot of people improve in the short time I've been posting here.

    You are a solid rock of advice around this place man,dont change a thing in the way you post.

    Kramer

    p.s. I do listen to a lot of the NPR programs on the weekends and the musicians on their ARE awsome far above any description of the word awsome that is used here.(even by myself)

    Leo Kotke is a master of the 12 string guitar.

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    Thumbs up

    I'll second Kramer on not wanting you to change your critiqueing style. The best part of this clinic is the large range of veiwpoints you can get on your work. There are all sorts of different approaches to it and it's useful to read them all.
    I tend to point out things that jump right out at me because I rarely have time to do an in depth examination of a song. And I have a wide tolerance for various ways of mixing something. To me, there are always dozens of different ways you could mix a song and all of them could be made to sound good. So I'm not bothered by relatively minor details.....it's the biggies that matter to me.
    You, on the other hand, like to get into the fine details of a mix and lord knows....we need your ears to help straighten out the problems that we can hear but don't know what's causing it.

    And I've never thought you came off as mean-spirited. You simply say what you hear. So keep on keepin' on man.

  10. #10
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    I think the main problem I have lately is it's getting so crowded here, that when I put rough ideas out, they're expected to be full blown productions and dissapointing when they're not. And the thread is gone by the time I can actually get feedback on the question I am actually asking.
    I'm honestly thinking of looking for new forums to make room for all the new guys here. And don't get me wrong, the more the merrier. But it's like going from a 15 student class to a 150 student class.

    I agree with mix, that this has become show and no tell. I don't feel that there is the type of in-depth discussion here that there could be. Most of what you get is that was cool, or I didn't care for that. Well why didn't you care for it? What would you have done?

    And if you would have received those types of feedback, it's lost because you get bumped by a fucking "Why is NWR so slow today" thread.


    Maybe we need another clinic....

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