Newest mix! Comments appreciated (ruthless comments commended!)

Steve Henningsgard

Steve Henningsgard

New member


I've recorded this band before and posted the results: I tried my hand at layering multiple not-so-distorted guitars on this one, and I think the track ended up much fuller because of it!

Please let me know what you think, good or bad. My goals are extremely high (as in, mixing/producing for major-label bands) so I'd rather people told me things I can improve NOW, vs. having people say crappy material is good just to make me feel better.

*Edit: I'm not sure why people don't really want to comment on this: it's kind of disheartening :/ I put a lot of work into this, and feel it's by far my best work! I recorded everything with Sonar 4 and free plugins, in a poorly-treated rented practice space, and did my best to make it sound pro. Perhaps it's so crappy nobody want to comment :/
 
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Oh c'mon now, nobody? I'm gonna go listen to every post with less than 10 comments now and add my $0.02: that way, I can complain nobody's posting anything about mine :p haha
 
Good gawd that song is fucking awful.

You definitely captured the ultra-squashed feel and production of this kind of music. Everything sounds like it's sitting in the mix okay. Guitars sound pretty good. On my end, the mix seems to be a little thin in the low end. You could maybe bring the lows up just a hair across the whole mix.
 
I think this sounds phenomenal dude. Guitars are great (like usual, I like your style with the guitars). I love the kick tone, the toms, overheads, etc. I would like to hear the snare of a little bit. Everything sits well though, great job man. =] Could I possibly get your chain for the kick?

This band kind of sounds like an Underoath (They're Only Chasing Safety era). But man, you did a killer job on the mix, good job. This is the best i've heard from you yet. =]

I can dig it.

Peace!
 
Although it might just be that I'm using my built-in laptop speakers, the vocals (screaming) sound too loud.

Other than that, it sounds fantastic.
 
Hah...this one played on my connection. Amazing...lol

Anyway, I think the kick/snare lack definition. Weather or not the volume should go up or not is a matter of preference, but they still need to be more defined. I would suggest a small EQ bump in the beater range of the kick (somwhere between 2-4k) and a change in compressor settings. Maybe a slower attack and very slightly higher ratio.

Cymbals sound pretty good in my opinion but the rest of the drums need to catch up.

Another personal preference of mine would be a slight hi boost in the vocals...around 10k but no more than 2 db (maybe 1.5...and yes I can hear .5db differences but that's just me).

Good tracking job... :)
 
The first thing i wanted to do was Turn it down

Now this complicated series frequency event has been something I have been studying for a long time i can tell you it comes down to the Crashes, and high frequencies(at human sensitive range)

and the Cymbals generally

highs are over-rated you see they would have been fine in the Mix. probably but the multiple by which they increase in relation to the area of frequency for a humans ear (the mid highs) causes the problem.

when you maxed the sound for ths listening.
(i had the same embarrassing problem on that other dudes mix)
(hence why Mastering is an Art you can't turn your back on, otherwise...BAM your on the ground and something is being inserted into your arse)


now your Guitars are Great Guns.
(harmonic content a little harsh.)
i'll post a song up on my TEST screen here:

it's called Slave but can call it Steve if you like.

http://www.theblackbay.com/testwma.php

have a listen while the song sits at about -14 it has a nice high end blurr.(just a perceptive thing) listen to the two against each other:

it's not so much the Cymbals DB as that it is the constant of them.
so a production change might be in order? if not just pull them back a bit.

I could go further but i get the feeling you have stopped reading.....
 
I just downloaded

Your pulling 9.37 on the RMS

some of it is bass but i must say I’ve never gone much past -13 and that is to just push it further.

I’m surprised it survived as well as it did.

Just had the quickest look at it there is a broad from 700 to 5k bulge that is the issue when i say a bulge I mean that is you drew a flat line across the song as it is now the peak further over that line is at this range that is why it sounds harsh but indeed Steve it could just be because it's 9.37RMS but then like i said it's the million dollar Question how to get to here and not get that hit. (but not sound mud).

I have achieved it it's hard work and that's why the "volume WARS" thing is a little bit of bitter grapes as well because indeed i have heard tracks at -10 -11 with no present harsh mid to high harmonics there is nothing wrong with these tracks.

It’s that not many people can do it and many fail as well.

But it is true the volume can be just turned up and the other thing is I don’t think anyone cares anymore either...

about anyhting actually.
 
What is your chain? Also, what all mics are you using? Also, a list of those free plugins would be AWESOME. Thanks dude! That's my goal too, and I'm buried in books and computer work.

*edit*

BTW your mix is like 1,000,000x better than mine. I'm very jealous, but in a positive way. I hope I can make a mix sound like that. I'm not a fan of that music, but I can appreciate it from an engineering level. If you have any tips or info regarding this mix, please PM me.
 
who mastered it?

yeah what the guy in the title said.

who mastered it?

basically I’d say summary ... it is close to "pro" whatever that is? the trick is put a Pre master up here let people hear that.

then look at the difference between the two then we can see if it's the master or not:

and I've just been told my master that he/she/ it likes the contrast between the vocals it was a good production choice.... it kept the song interesting.

summary good song...marketable indeed.
 
Greg_L said:
Good gawd that song is fucking awful.

You definitely captured the ultra-squashed feel and production of this kind of music. Everything sounds like it's sitting in the mix okay. Guitars sound pretty good. On my end, the mix seems to be a little thin in the low end. You could maybe bring the lows up just a hair across the whole mix.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I agree, my main problem nowadays is the bottom-end (which is probably related to my way-less-than-stellar mixing environment, combined with a crappy kick mic haha)


inmyheartx said:
I think this sounds phenomenal dude. Guitars are great (like usual, I like your style with the guitars). I love the kick tone, the toms, overheads, etc. I would like to hear the snare of a little bit. Everything sits well though, great job man. =] Could I possibly get your chain for the kick?

This band kind of sounds like an Underoath (They're Only Chasing Safety era). But man, you did a killer job on the mix, good job. This is the best i've heard from you yet. =]

I can dig it.

Peace!
Click to expand...
Again, thank you! I've come to the conclusion that I need a different go-to snare mic. Or a different pre-amp for said snare. Basically, something needs to change, 'cause I'm not picking up much crack to it on the top-end (I've got a bottom-snare mic that I could kick up a bit I suppose).

As for my chain on the kick, I've got a mediocre Kickball mic, into the built-in pre's on my MOTU 896, and that's about it. I use the BLOCKFISH compressor on a lot of stuff, including the kick. It's got a great gritty feel to it. GREAT for screaming vox! I EQ'd a bunch of the low-mids out, as well as some of the nastier papery tones up higher. I waited to boost the high-end until after the compressor with a 2nd EQ, as well as a nice little punch at ~65hz.


Guitarer said:
Although it might just be that I'm using my built-in laptop speakers, the vocals (screaming) sound too loud.

Other than that, it sounds fantastic.
Click to expand...
I agree: I bet you can't guess which member was present when I was mixing :P


Trell Blaze said:
Hah...this one played on my connection. Amazing...lol

Anyway, I think the kick/snare lack definition. Weather or not the volume should go up or not is a matter of preference, but they still need to be more defined. I would suggest a small EQ bump in the beater range of the kick (somwhere between 2-4k) and a change in compressor settings. Maybe a slower attack and very slightly higher ratio.

Cymbals sound pretty good in my opinion but the rest of the drums need to catch up.

Another personal preference of mine would be a slight hi boost in the vocals...around 10k but no more than 2 db (maybe 1.5...and yes I can hear .5db differences but that's just me).

Good tracking job... :)
Click to expand...
I concur: the guitars were a bit difficult to tame (8 tracks of rhythm guitars, plus two lead guitars and a couple more spicy tracks get a bit overwhelming the first time around!) and so they kind of walk all over some stuff. After listening in a better environment, I think the cymbals are a little harsh, but only a little, and it's primarily due to a lack of high-end on the vocals I think. It'd fill out the mix (like you said :) )


jrhager84 said:
What is your chain? Also, what all mics are you using? Also, a list of those free plugins would be AWESOME. Thanks dude! That's my goal too, and I'm buried in books and computer work.

*edit*

BTW your mix is like 1,000,000x better than mine. I'm very jealous, but in a positive way. I hope I can make a mix sound like that. I'm not a fan of that music, but I can appreciate it from an engineering level. If you have any tips or info regarding this mix, please PM me.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the compliments :) The main plugins I used were the BLOCKFISH compressor (http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=5), the Kjaerhus Classic Series EQ and Compressor (http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php), Magnus' "Ambience" reverb (http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/), and the TLS Pocket Limiter (http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1727.html Pocket Limiter). The built-in Parametric EQ in Sonar is pretty decent: I haven't really messed around with finding a better one, but I'm sure there are many out there.

As for mic's, I've got a pretty damn modest collection, most of which I had from various bands I was in (thus, all of the medium-grade vocal mics):

- 1 x Shure SM57 (top-snare)
- 1 x Shure SM58 (floor-tom)
- 1 x Sennheiser e609 (high-tom)
- 2 x Oktava MC012's (overheads)
- 1 x Shure KSM27 (bottom-snare)
- 1 x Blue Kickball (kick)

Aaaaaaand that's about it! I don't have any outboard gear whatsoever, 'cause I can't afford it. I just switched to using Pro Tools as well, and so far it's OK. I think Sonar is a better program, but I'm not about to go to every major and minor studio in the world and try to sell them Sonar: it's easier for me to just learn to make Pro Tools work for me! First-off, I think I'll get that VST wrapper so I can use my sweet free plugins... :D
 
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theblackBay said:
yeah what the guy in the title said.

who mastered it?

basically I’d say summary ... it is close to "pro" whatever that is? the trick is put a Pre master up here let people hear that.

then look at the difference between the two then we can see if it's the master or not:

and I've just been told my master that he/she/ it likes the contrast between the vocals it was a good production choice.... it kept the song interesting.

summary good song...marketable indeed.
Click to expand...

I mastered it. If I deciphered your cryptic wording correctly, I think I might actually agree with your comment about the high-high-end (9k+) being a little harsh, specifically in relation to the mid-highs (6k-9k). And thanks for the compliments if I read those correctly too :)
 
i hear layered compression artifacts all over this. your mixing style is unmistakable and quite good but the music you mix is atrocious.
 
Overall, not a bad effort.

My main complaints are -


It sounds pretty squashed.

There is little definition to most of the instruments. (which may be the result of the two following comments)

The low mids are lacking.

The highs are pretty harsh.


Hope that helps.
 
NL5 said:
Overall, not a bad effort.

My main complaints are -


It sounds pretty squashed.

There is little definition to most of the instruments. (which may be the result of the two following comments)

The low mids are lacking.

The highs are pretty harsh.


Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input! I think the lack of low-mids is due to my obsession with removing mud: I may have gone a bit overboard and removed too much for sure. The highs sounded good in the two speaker systems I have (a pair of RP5's, and a 2.1 decent JBL system that translates to most home stereos and cars pretty well), but on the genelec's I listened to at work, I definitely agree on the harshness of the high-end. Probably wouldn't take much to fix that, and adding a bit of high-end to the vocals might make the OH's seem less harsh too.

I consider "not a bad effort" a compliment from a pro like you, so thanks :)
 
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