new mix - need advice - please listen

A

alecmcmahon

New member
this is the first mix i did with a full band ( mine ) i know its not perfect and im hoping you guys can give me advice on what needs to be done.

equipment used.

digi002rack

drums :
snare - sm57
kick - beta 52a
overheads - 2 mxl 603s

guitar :
b52 half stack

sm57 right up on the grill at like 3 o clock

bass:

2x15 sunn cab
ampeg b2r head

shure beta 52a about 2 inches from the speaker



please excuse the bad timing isuses, it was just kinda thrown together to play with mixing....

i realize the bass is to ... bassy, but it sort of hids in the mix if i took it down, and i just realize it now it completly cancles out the kick drum.... ahhhh

my biggest problem would be... i could achive the " OMPH " that i wanted with the distorted guitars... i was hearing it out of the amp.. but i couldnt get it in PT. how do you do it ?


anyway this is the link...
its called final mix

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/alecmcmahonmusic.htm
 
sounds like it was recorded all together in one room rather than tracked out. That causes a lot of bleeding in tracks which i think will limit you when it comes to mixing. if you need to turn down the bass, then you would lower the volume in the bass track...but if the bass is also present in the guitar track and the drum tracks...not a lot you can do about that without changing the sounds of those instruments as well. If you do have this tracked out...use your EQ to help seperate the bass guitar and kick.
 
thajeremy said:
sounds like it was recorded all together in one room rather than tracked out. That causes a lot of bleeding in tracks which i think will limit you when it comes to mixing. if you need to turn down the bass, then you would lower the volume in the bass track...but if the bass is also present in the guitar track and the drum tracks...not a lot you can do about that without changing the sounds of those instruments as well. If you do have this tracked out...use your EQ to help seperate the bass guitar and kick.
Click to expand...


evreything was tracked out one by one

drums first

then guitar

then bass

then guitar again
 
where's the kick drum?

do you like compressing? everytime the bass guitar attacks the whole drums fade away.

anyway: the performance is so ... ah how shall I say this... bad that I wouldn't even think of spending any more time on mixing it.

the drummer seems to try to play funny high-hat figures but then he fails and the whole timing's gone.
 
six said:
where's the kick drum?

do you like compressing? everytime the bass guitar attacks the whole drums fade away.

anyway: the performance is so ... ah how shall I say this... bad that I wouldn't even think of spending any more time on mixing it.

the drummer seems to try to play funny high-hat figures but then he fails and the whole timing's gone.
Click to expand...


six said:
please excuse the bad timing isuses, it was just kinda thrown together to play with mixing....
Click to expand...

im a total noob i say just started only a few weeks.

im not looking for critizism on the drummers playing more so advice how to make the mix better.
 
so i'm sorry, but as I already implied: your overall compression sounds terrible, so try to tweak there (all in the end) a bit.

I'd try to compress the bass first.

but honestly: I still think it makes no sense with this material.
 
six said:
so i'm sorry, but as I already implied: your overall compression sounds terrible, so try to tweak there (all in the end) a bit.

I'd try to compress the bass first.

but honestly: I still think it makes no sense with this material.
Click to expand...


alright, now i know i need to compress evreything alot more...

perhaps the bass problem lies in my monitors ( m audio bx5 ) , should prob buy that sub.

and i really didnt think the song was that terribly bad... sure it was off time, but ... ahh, who knows...
 
alecmcmahon said:
alright, now i know i need to compress evreything alot more...
Click to expand...

No!!!
IMHO the opposite

the mix is so compressed that everything jumps around
try 2 Listen carefull
If you don´t know how a compressor works(yet), don´t use it

Remco
 
remco said:
No!!!
IMHO the opposite

the mix is so compressed that everything jumps around
try 2 Listen carefull
If you don´t know how a compressor works(yet), don´t use it

Remco
Click to expand...


what do you mean jumps around ?


wasnt the other guy implying that the bass needs to be compressed cause its way to loud and overpowering evreything else ???
 
alecmcmahon said:
what do you mean jumps around ?
Click to expand...

it sounds like someone is moving faders

alecmcmahon said:
wasnt the other guy implying that the bass needs to be compressed cause its way to loud and overpowering evreything else ??
Click to expand...

Yes, but the bas track itseft needs a bit of compression , the problem is you got a compressor on the whole mix, or you're sending several instrument 2 the same compressor (instance) wich sometimes gives the same results.

what's happening now, when the bas pluck a string the other instrument disapear.
Okay i try 2 explain this Eg.

When you got 2 instruments (eg bas,drum).
en there is a little volume diff . eg 2 db
So when the bas has a loud part eg +2 db, the diff is now 4 db
Now what a compressor does, it trys to keep consistent volume level.
So when the bas becomes 2 db to loud is puls it 2 db down, the problem is because on he drum there is on the loud part not 2 but 4 db diff. the drum is pulled down 2 db aswell. resulting in a sound like some-one is moving the drum fader , wich is verry ugly.

i hope this make sense, my english is pretty bad.

Remco
 
it's exactly the way remco explains. you WILL need compression but on the seperate tracks. I have to say that I never mixed real drums but I believe it's a pain in the arse unless you have a couple of mics to really lay down the stuff to seperate tracks. I guess the fewer tracks you can use for the drums the more consistant the drum-playing has to be. if you compress the drums as "one instrument", the same will happen as with your mix. one has to see the drums as individual instruments.

I read you have 3 mics on the drumset. should be ok if they go to 3 different tracks.

for the bass you could try going directly into the mixer. compression. finito.

i think the order in which you recorded the instrument is not too decent either. you could (if the equipment allows it) record the drums and bass at the same time. bass directly into the mixer. this way bleed from the bass in the drum-tracks is also avoided. put the bass into the drummer's cans and put the bassist in the drum-room. this way they record kind of live but you will have the possibility to re-do the bass-track if it sucks. I think the timing will be much better this way.

after this "spine" is rock-solid, record the guitars.

ok, that was a bit about recording not mixing, but anyway: I never heard of recording instruments in your order. leaving the drummer play alone being the strangest thing.

another option would be to let the whole band play but only record the drums. the problem here is to avoid guitar- and bass-bleed on the drum-tracks.
 
six said:
it's exactly the way remco explains. you WILL need compression but on the seperate tracks. I have to say that I never mixed real drums but I believe it's a pain in the arse unless you have a couple of mics to really lay down the stuff to seperate tracks. I guess the fewer tracks you can use for the drums the more consistant the drum-playing has to be. if you compress the drums as "one instrument", the same will happen as with your mix. one has to see the drums as individual instruments.

I read you have 3 mics on the drumset. should be ok if they go to 3 different tracks.

for the bass you could try going directly into the mixer. compression. finito.

i think the order in which you recorded the instrument is not too decent either. you could (if the equipment allows it) record the drums and bass at the same time. bass directly into the mixer. this way bleed from the bass in the drum-tracks is also avoided. put the bass into the drummer's cans and put the bassist in the drum-room. this way they record kind of live but you will have the possibility to re-do the bass-track if it sucks. I think the timing will be much better this way.

after this "spine" is rock-solid, record the guitars.

ok, that was a bit about recording not mixing, but anyway: I never heard of recording instruments in your order. leaving the drummer play alone being the strangest thing.

another option would be to let the whole band play but only record the drums. the problem here is to avoid guitar- and bass-bleed on the drum-tracks.
Click to expand...



we didnt quite do it like that


first thing i did was mic up the kit with 4 mics, 2 overheads , kick, and snare

i sent a headphone feed from the control room to the drum room

then i plugged the guitar in direct so that the guitar player can play the song while drums play along ( i thought it was called a scratch track ) ...

after drums were laid down we did guitars , and then bass last.



i applied compression to each drum mic as saw fit , and when it levaled all out. then a master fader for the whole mix and applied compression.
 
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