This is my ~30th Version. Have at it!

[Haveatit]

Hello to everyone!
This will be my first post on this forum so i will give a little intro of myself.

I am trying to write, record, mix and master my own songs for some time now, with various success. I have been able to grow my experience gradually and looking back at my previous records i was able to learn how to avoid those mistakes.

I have also upgraded my recording equipment with some guitars, but most importantly with Rode NT1 and Focuserite Scarlett Solo.
This mic & Interface have been a big improvement in recording quality over my previous chinese condenser mic setup.

I have finally finished a song that i feel is polished enough to show to someone else besides my wife and friend.

I would hope you can give me any kind of criticism regarding what i should focus on and try to improve on this mix or take in account for the next efforts.

Mostly i feel that i struggle with below listed things so i hope you can give me some comments on those:
1.Voice clarity and Effects, Reverb. I would like to know if this is good amount or any other tips?
2.Voice loudness, If it sits correctly in Mix.
3. Mastering the final result to sound good on all equipment. Hardest i find is to master so that it would sound good in the Car. usually I will find some distortion or clipping in the car, although i don't hear any on my Headphones or speakers. I am adding limiters, and try not to turn the volume in Mixing stage, too much.

Sorry if the text is too long. The Mp3 Is in Attachment. This is like 30th version now

 

[spantini]

Welcome, Haveatit.

I'm on headphones. The bass needs to come up a little, and the kick should come up even more to match it. IMO, the bass' notes should be shorter so as to lock into the drums, not the rhythm guitar. I think you could also do with less reverb on the vocal.

I'm hearing the lyrics clearly in most phrases - good job there.

 

[Haveatit]

Welcome, Haveatit.

I'm on headphones. The bass needs to come up a little, and the kick should come up even more to match it. IMO, the bass' notes should be shorter so as to lock into the drums, not the rhythm guitar. I think you could also do with less reverb on the vocal.

I'm hearing the lyrics clearly in most phrases - good job there.

Hello, spantini and Thank You.

I have tried to adjust the bass and drums for quite some time, and the problem i find is that when i boost up the kick, it will start to trash my car stereo, while other songs with strong kick will not. So i can't quite figure out, why is that. Any tips how to solve this?

As for bass, it is the first time i tried to play a bass guitar and i really appreciate the suggestions, since a have close to none experience.

Also i am really intrigued to try and record bass locked in with drums and see how that would sound. Thanks for the suggestion, i will try that out.

Thank you for your input.

 

[spantini]

Hello, spantini and Thank You.

I have tried to adjust the bass and drums for quite some time, and the problem i find is that when i boost up the kick, it will start to trash my car stereo, while other songs with strong kick will not...

If your car is relatively modern and still has it's original stereo system, it's likely the stereo has a set of presets or, if you're fortunate, possibly an equalizer with several adjustable frequencies. I'd play the song with the stereo-trashing kick through each preset and see how that affects what you hear. By presets I'm referring to JAZZ, COUNTRY, ROCK, CLASSICAL, etc., which will carry their own specific EQs.

 

[TripleM]

Really tight doubling on the guitars. The guitars had a little nasally tone tho. I didn't care much for that.

Snare sample was pretty good. But the drums sound canned.

I like the feel of the song.

The vocal was OK. Too much reverb for me. The performance varied - parts lacked energy and other parts really felt good.

The bass part was a little ho-hum. I think there is space in the low end for the bass to do more than a drone on the root note.

 

[andrushkiwt]

The bass part was a little ho-hum. I think there is space in the low end for the bass to do more than a drone on the root note.

That would really pick the song up, for sure. Give it some movement and rhythm

 

[jimmys69]

Vocals way up in front. Guitars have no balls/thickness. Bass and kick do not sync.

I see what you are doing with effects, but there is not a continuity with the tune, so they seem overkill. They may not be if.... Just need to get a focus on the whole presentation of the mix man.

 

[Tekhed66]

First impressions - listening on average computer speakers (closest i can get to car speakers)... I think evrything I want to comment on has already been covered but here's my 2c worth...

The kick and bass really need to sync... you're losing a lot of punch by having different rhythms for each... ideally the bass should follow the kick to really deliver a knock-out punch.

Vocals are too far in front of the mix... reverb could come down a bit (ie. dial in more of a dry vocal signal).

Guitar tone is a bit strident... it pierces the ears so try EQing differently... reduce the highs so that they dont take your head off (especially those last few notes at the very end of the song).

Bass line could be more melodic rather than simply following the root of the chord...

Ummm... on the whole it's not too bad... the melody is pretty good and the arrangement also works pretty well for me ... the rest are just nuts and bolts...

Also, when listening on your car stereo, make sure that your EQ is flat... I don't know how fancy your stereo is... mine is very basic... just bass, mid and treble ... I always set each to 5/10 (where 0 is off, 10 is all the way up) and just listen for anything really obviously wrong in the mix rather than trying to hear and correect subtle EQ or effects.

Good luck! ... I'm sure that version #31 will be even better.

 

[Haveatit]

First of all, thanks to all of you who took their time to listen and respond with the suggestions and some good explanations.

I am really happy i found this forum, because i have no other experienced insight that would tell me what to improve. Mostly everything sounds okay for others. So thank you guys for that. I can see this as very nice, professional and friendly community!

If your car is relatively modern and still has it's original stereo system, it's likely the stereo has a set of presets or, if you're fortunate, possibly an equalizer with several adjustable frequencies. I'd play the song with the stereo-trashing kick through each preset and see how that affects what you hear. By presets I'm referring to JAZZ, COUNTRY, ROCK, CLASSICAL, etc., which will carry their own specific EQs.

My car stereo has basic EQ, like Tekhed66 explained, with bass, mid and treble. Boosting for example the bass to higher, i get my speakers destroyed, but for some good studio record it does not. I am just wondering, what would be the steps to achieve this? Because i know that many people will set their EQ bass up.

Really tight doubling on the guitars. The guitars had a little nasally tone tho. I didn't care much for that.

Snare sample was pretty good. But the drums sound canned.

I like the feel of the song.

The vocal was OK. Too much reverb for me. The performance varied - parts lacked energy and other parts really felt good.

The bass part was a little ho-hum. I think there is space in the low end for the bass to do more than a drone on the root note.

Can i understand what you mean by canned? Do you feel the drums should be more clear? Or some reverb added?

First impressions - listening on average computer speakers (closest i can get to car speakers)... I think evrything I want to comment on has already been covered but here's my 2c worth...

The kick and bass really need to sync... you're losing a lot of punch by having different rhythms for each... ideally the bass should follow the kick to really deliver a knock-out punch.

Vocals are too far in front of the mix... reverb could come down a bit (ie. dial in more of a dry vocal signal).

Guitar tone is a bit strident... it pierces the ears so try EQing differently... reduce the highs so that they dont take your head off (especially those last few notes at the very end of the song).

Bass line could be more melodic rather than simply following the root of the chord...

Ummm... on the whole it's not too bad... the melody is pretty good and the arrangement also works pretty well for me ... the rest are just nuts and bolts...

Also, when listening on your car stereo, make sure that your EQ is flat... I don't know how fancy your stereo is... mine is very basic... just bass, mid and treble ... I always set each to 5/10 (where 0 is off, 10 is all the way up) and just listen for anything really obviously wrong in the mix rather than trying to hear and correect subtle EQ or effects.

Good luck! ... I'm sure that version #31 will be even better.

For the vocals, the only way i can understand to put vocals further away from front is using more reverb or adding some stereo effect, but then the vocal will not be clear enough, at least from my previous tries. Any other way to do that?

I Have tried to reduce highs on the guitar, but then it sounds too muddy on my opinion, and i don't know how to overcome that either. Maybe some tips for this?

Overall i really agree to all of your suggestions and they hopefully will lead me in right direction if i will find some ways how to fix it. The most impact i can see for the song would come from the bass if it is more melodic and synced to the drums.

 

[Tekhed66]

For the vocals, the only way i can understand to put vocals further away from front is using more reverb or adding some stereo effect, but then the vocal will not be clear enough, at least from my previous tries. Any other way to do that?

I Have tried to reduce highs on the guitar, but then it sounds too muddy on my opinion, and i don't know how to overcome that either. Maybe some tips for this?

Overall i really agree to all of your suggestions and they hopefully will lead me in right direction if i will find some ways how to fix it. The most impact i can see for the song would come from the bass if it is more melodic and synced to the drums.

What I and everyone else means is that your vocals are mixed too loudly... in other words, they are too loud in the mix and the level should be pulled back a little bit so that they sit better in the overall song... dont add more reverb as that will make them too mushy but still as loud.

The guitar EQ might need some fine tuning... what are you using to adjust your EQ? ... the 'highs' might be OK but perhaps the 'high-mids' might be the culprit... you said that you have a Focusrite Solo... did it come bundled with some Focusrite plugins? ... they have a free plugin called Midnight EQ which is very good and allows you to adjust frequencies in specific bands.

Also (finally) perhaps try doing the final mix using a compressor (eg Glue Compressor) in your Master channel... that's assuming you're not using one already ... it can make a difference to the overall mix and could e the secret ingredient if used wisely... too hard to explain how to use it here... You tube has a ton of info on what it is and how to use it.

First thing to do however, is to fix the bass guitar / kick track... get them locked together and hear the difference.

 

[Haveatit]

What I and everyone else means is that your vocals are mixed too loudly... in other words, they are too loud in the mix and the level should be pulled back a little bit so that they sit better in the overall song... dont add more reverb as that will make them too mushy but still as loud.

The guitar EQ might need some fine tuning... what are you using to adjust your EQ? ... the 'highs' might be OK but perhaps the 'high-mids' might be the culprit... you said that you have a Focusrite Solo... did it come bundled with some Focusrite plugins? ... they have a free plugin called Midnight EQ which is very good and allows you to adjust frequencies in specific bands.

Also (finally) perhaps try doing the final mix using a compressor (eg Glue Compressor) in your Master channel... that's assuming you're not using one already ... it can make a difference to the overall mix and could e the secret ingredient if used wisely... too hard to explain how to use it here... You tube has a ton of info on what it is and how to use it.

First thing to do however, is to fix the bass guitar / kick track... get them locked together and hear the difference.

Thank you for the tips. I can understand that volume for vocals are too loud. Been playing with it back and forth for all of this time. Do you have some guideline on how to be comfortable with what level to set? Or you just have to learn to hear it?

For the HQ i have Focusrite plugins added, but i am using fruity parametric eq 2. It is nice plugin, showing spectrum and letting me to adjust different bands.

For Compressor yes, i have used it in this on multiple tracks, like vocals and guitars and even on the master, but surely i still need to learn to work with it. Thanks for the tip!

 

[TripleM]

Can i understand what you mean by canned? Do you feel the drums should be more clear? Or some reverb added?

By "canned" I mean programmed. Or - not played by a drummer.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I think the low end of the bass is eating up a lot of headroom. Dial it back below about 150Hz and boost something up higher that gives it definition. Possibly the same with the kick.

The guitars have that fake amp sound. Recent events here on the forum support my bias in favor of using hardware to get your tone over using a software sim. Meanwhile you might try cutting the highs from the raw guitar before it gets to the sim. (I'm assuming it's an amp sim.)

The drums sound canned partly because of the stiff "playing" but also because of the tones. Getting programmed drums to sound good is difficult but it can be done. That's not my specialty since I'm working with human drummers, but someone around here is bound to have some suggestions.

Try starting your mix with just lead vocal, kick and snare. Get those balanced then work in the bass. Add the rest once the "backbone" is in place, then fine tune everything.

 

[Haveatit]

I think the low end of the bass is eating up a lot of headroom. Dial it back below about 150Hz and boost something up higher that gives it definition. Possibly the same with the kick.

The guitars have that fake amp sound. Recent events here on the forum support my bias in favor of using hardware to get your tone over using a software sim. Meanwhile you might try cutting the highs from the raw guitar before it gets to the sim. (I'm assuming it's an amp sim.)

The drums sound canned partly because of the stiff "playing" but also because of the tones. Getting programmed drums to sound good is difficult but it can be done. That's not my specialty since I'm working with human drummers, but someone around here is bound to have some suggestions.

Try starting your mix with just lead vocal, kick and snare. Get those balanced then work in the bass. Add the rest once the "backbone" is in place, then fine tune everything.

Thank you. I will try to play with the EQ for bass and Kick a more.

I am always astonished by the ear that you guys have in the way to find such details, like fake amps and programmed drums. As small hobbyist i can only afford to do so much, ans such amps and drums are a real help to me. My guitar amp is really not powerful enough to be recorded in my opinion. Or maybe i just need to learn and practice more.

Also i can find, that modifying clean guitar record by shifting notes and then feeding in amp is quite easy and it will sound good. If i modify signal that goes through amp, then these note shifts are easily notifiable.
I need to do this since i am not that great of a guitar player.

Thank you for the below mixing trick. I can see how that can help a lot.

 

[spantini]

... My guitar amp is really not powerful enough to be recorded in my opinion. Or maybe i just need to learn and practice more....

You'd be surprised. In a previous band, one guitarist dropped his large (forgot name) amp/cab
setup in favor of an itty-bitty 15W combo amp, from which he was able to get very close to the
sounds he wanted. Mic'ing or DIing got him even closer when playing gigs or in studio.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Yep, little amps can be great for recording. Give it a try.

 

[jimmys69]

Agreed to both above. Gotten some great tones from smaller output combo amps. I bet what you, I, and everyone is missing in the guitar tone is the 'beating' of the speaker cone. It just sounds better recorded than a sim IMO.

I could help you with those drums if you send me the midi file. The drums could be worked in a much better way. If interested hit me up.

 

[Gtoboy]

I have large and small amps and am able to record loud amps but most of the time I find myself using 15-25 watt small amps for recording. I use the volume knobs on the guitars for tone changes a lot of the time also, when double tracking parts it keeps from having overpowering distortion and lot's of tone possibilities

 

[YellowDwarf]

I like the vocals in this, nice and thick verb on them. This reminds me a bit of 60's Bowie stuff - simple drums, some simple guitar, simple sounds, well put together instrumentally. Love the outro as well.

Songwise, IMO, you're missing dynamics - to me the whole thing sounds the same volume throughout. I know it's hard to do in today's music, but I feel this song could do with some overall volume changes to bring the listener into the mix. For example, at 2:35 or so, I feel that you could have brought the overall volume down to pull me in to the mix but it didn't happen. And at 3:08 or so I think it's possible to bring up the energy with that wonderful sounding lead guitar to come in louder and really build to the end and the outro.

Easy for me to say, right?

Timbo

 

[Haveatit]

Hello,
After receiving your comments and critique i have really tried to work on the song and mostly rerecorded it to try and follow some of your suggestions. I hope you could take a listen and give me your thoughts and new version of it. I feel the biggest problem was the bass that i feel i managed to fix quite good. But there are still some things i struggle with.

Agreed to both above. Gotten some great tones from smaller output combo amps. I bet what you, I, and everyone is missing in the guitar tone is the 'beating' of the speaker cone. It just sounds better recorded than a sim IMO.

I could help you with those drums if you send me the midi file. The drums could be worked in a much better way. If interested hit me up.

One is with the drums. I sat for many hours and modified midi note by note tried to shift them back and fourth to not match perfect timings and also to make separate hits louder or quieter than others.
But i still find that maybe the drum is too uniform throughout the song and is not changing enough or does not have some spark to it.

I would love to share my midi with you if you still would be willing to help me with it.

I like the vocals in this, nice and thick verb on them. This reminds me a bit of 60's Bowie stuff - simple drums, some simple guitar, simple sounds, well put together instrumentally. Love the outro as well.

Songwise, IMO, you're missing dynamics - to me the whole thing sounds the same volume throughout. I know it's hard to do in today's music, but I feel this song could do with some overall volume changes to bring the listener into the mix. For example, at 2:35 or so, I feel that you could have brought the overall volume down to pull me in to the mix but it didn't happen. And at 3:08 or so I think it's possible to bring up the energy with that wonderful sounding lead guitar to come in louder and really build to the end and the outro.

Easy for me to say, right?

Timbo

As for the dynamics, i really understand and feel what you are saying, but when i tried to fix that, i feel that for every part that i try to make quieter or louder i can really feel that change of volume when i change it with automation. I tried to change it for separate channels or all together, but every change was still too distracting. I tried to make the vocals quieter in the bridge part, but not sure if that fixed the dynamics issue. Also make the solo guitars throughout the song louder as the song goes.

Perhaps its the problem of recording. That i should record those parts with intention to make them more quiet.

I hope you can give me some tips on how to solve this dynamic issue. I have not been successful on finding a good tutorial in internet, since most of them are regarding on how to make the song more loud

Anyway, hope you guys enjoy and give me some feedback for the new version.
Thank you for your time!

P.S I realize 8 months has passed but i feel its better if i continue the existing thread for it to all make sense.
P.S.S You can find the original in the first post.