Mixing / Mastering / Drum job for another group's song.

[PoeticIntensity]

For the past year, I've been tracking, mixing, and mastering stuff all recorded within the confines of my studio. To begin this year, I had the opportunity to get tracks recorded elsewhere, put a drum track down, and then mix and master the whole thing.

The song is called "The Tie that Binds" and was tracked by our own Dastrick.

I'm interested in mix / master / drum comments (or any other comment ya have).

Thanks for listening.

*disclaimer* This song is openly Christian-related.

New Mixes based on critiques:

Mix 4 (Vocals EQ / Level tweaked, bass levels reduced, drum reverb reduced, harshness in beginning mitigated, ending fade tweaked, master levels slightly increased and bass compressor tweaked)

Mix 4 No Spatializer

Mix 4 No Spatializer, nor chorus

 

[karumba]

very cool song, but i think there is something wrong with the phase. did you use some kind of "stereo-widening" tools?
try to crosscheck with headphones.

 

[joeym]

Nice song from Dastrick, Jason.
I do notice a sort of phaseyness in the sound like Jan said and I'm listening on phones.
I felt the acoustics could cut thru a bit better. At the start of the first verse there's a very strong "p" in one of the words. Drums are superbly played, but the cymbals sound kind of muffled and I don't hear any hihat. Overall I felt the track lacks a bit of that white noise to give it colour. Just my 2c.....

 

[Tobe]

Also on headphones and sounds good. I'm worried the bottom end sounds a bit too big and might not hold on some systems. Experiment with panning the guitars around a bit more. It has a very stereo sound, but most of it still seems to come down the middle.

 

[Murdersgalore]

The kick drums need more snap and the guitars need way more distortion. The singer is ok but he should growl more.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

very cool song, but i think there is something wrong with the phase. did you use some kind of "stereo-widening" tools?
try to crosscheck with headphones.

I'm simultaneously impressed and baffled by your comment. Yes, I'm using what is called a "Matrix Spatializer" on one of the guitars, but that's it. When I read your comment, I loaded up the project and A/B'ed the whole song multiple times with and without the spatializer effect. For as hard as I tried, I couldn't detect any "phasing" with that filter on. The only thing I heard was a widening of the stereo field. When I get home tonight, I'm going to export the project with the guitar set to mono, and upload that. To me, that way, it just sounds a bit less stereo, but there's a good chance I'm missing something. I also listened many times through headphones after mixing and didn't notice anything.

Thank you for your comment - it seems quite valid, as you guessed exactly what I was doing.

Nice song from Dastrick, Jason.
I do notice a sort of phaseyness in the sound like Jan said and I'm listening on phones.
I felt the acoustics could cut thru a bit better. At the start of the first verse there's a very strong "p" in one of the words. Drums are superbly played, but the cymbals sound kind of muffled and I don't hear any hihat. Overall I felt the track lacks a bit of that white noise to give it colour. Just my 2c.....

Thanks for commenting, Joey. Yup... Good call on that "p". I'll see if I can't get that under control a bit more. As far as the cymbals and hi-hat... I've listened through everything from crappy desktop speakers, to monitors, and the cymbals / hats come through just fine. Not quite sure what to make of that.

Also on headphones and sounds good. I'm worried the bottom end sounds a bit too big and might not hold on some systems. Experiment with panning the guitars around a bit more. It has a very stereo sound, but most of it still seems to come down the middle.

Thanks for commenting, Tobe! Hmm... I know what you're saying about the bottom end. It's the verb put on the kick drum. Makes it sound huge. It mixes nicely when the song is going full-force, but it sounds a bit big when it's just backing the acoustic guitar. As far as panning goes, this sucker is panned as far as it can go. Acoustic is panned hard R/L, distorted guitars are about 90% R/L (and even widened digitally a bit more) Drums are panned about 80% (O/H are hard R/L).

The kick drums need more snap and the guitars need way more distortion. The singer is ok but he should growl more.

Thanks for listening, and your comments.

 

[karumba]

I'm simultaneously impressed and baffled by your comment. Yes, I'm using what is called a "Matrix Spatializer" on one of the guitars, but that's it. When I read your comment, I loaded up the project and A/B'ed the whole song multiple times with and without the spatializer effect. For as hard as I tried, I couldn't detect any "phasing" with that filter on. The only thing I heard was a widening of the stereo field. When I get home tonight, I'm going to export the project with the guitar set to mono, and upload that. To me, that way, it just sounds a bit less stereo, but there's a good chance I'm missing something. I also listened many times through headphones after mixing and didn't notice anything.

Thank you for your comment - it seems quite valid, as you guessed exactly what I was doing.

yes, spatializers could do such a things. as a rule of thumb, you should never use such tools on mono-signals, they just mess with the phase. use a slight chorus instead just to give it that kiss of 3D. i like the roland dimension D from the UAD card very much for that job.

i'll hear your track again when you uploaded the "unspatialized" version

 

[dewhitt]

Hey Jason,

I'm hearing a little too much bass or something. The plosive in the first verse on the "p" of the word "keep" almost seemed inevitable by the time I heard it because it seems that entire range of the spectrum is hyped. I also agree on first listen with Tobe's comment about the panning - I think you've got the middle and the ends covered, but my ears want to hear more mono sounds out in the middle of the L-R fields, maybe at around + or - 30? It's a good performance and song to work with, so I'm looking forward to hearing where you end up with it.

Best,

Dave
SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads

 

[PoeticIntensity]

yes, spatializers could do such a things. as a rule of thumb, you should never use such tools on mono-signals, they just mess with the phase. use a slight chorus instead just to give it that kiss of 3D. i like the roland dimension D from the UAD card very much for that job.

i'll hear your track again when you uploaded the "unspatialized" version

Awesome. I actually already have it being put through a chorus. What I did, was put the mono-signal through a chorus, then put the stereo outs of the chorus through the spatializer, to widen the chorus even more. I'll upload 2 tracks tonight for your discerning ear: 1. No chorus, no spatializer. 2. Chorus only.

Thank you for taking time on this. Also - is your name "Jan"? Were you the one who mastered Gerry and Joey's tracks? If so, you do very impressive work.

 

[kcearl]

wow my limited experience couldn't offer any advice on the mix like some of the above, even if I could hear it lol


Sounded good to me Jason...pretty clear and separated, nice levels and performance...

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Hey Jason,

I'm hearing a little too much bass or something. The plosive in the first verse on the "p" of the word "keep" almost seemed inevitable by the time I heard it because it seems that entire range of the spectrum is hyped. I also agree on first listen with Tobe's comment about the panning - I think you've got the middle and the ends covered, but my ears want to hear more mono sounds out in the middle of the L-R fields, maybe at around + or - 30? It's a good performance and song to work with, so I'm looking forward to hearing where you end up with it.SoundClick artist: Dave DeWhitt - page with MP3 music downloads

Wow... You guys are nailing everything. I'm told the vocals were recorded on an SM58, and in my efforts to make it sound thicker, I may have augmented a frequency that now needs to be diminished. Great catch. I'll work on the panning, too.

Every time I post here, I secretly hope to get a "holy crap! This is perfect!" consensus, but man... This is just as good. I love learning and honing my craft. Thank you all.

 

[ido1957]

Comments
- Love the singer's voice and the song is great! Arrangement is good too!
- the lead guitar in the intro/betweens is out of tune. Can you retrack that ;-)
- the intro is so abrupt, anything you can do with that?
- wondering about the bass too and how it's translating...on my hp it's fairly up there.
- the phase thing is outside my scope lol so I'll just learn from this
- Yes - Jan is the ME that did Joey and my stuff.
- I never get a perfect mix :-(

 

[joeym]

Hey Jason,
forget what I said about it sounding muffled.....I've listened to it properly on my system now, I can even hear the attack of the acoustic strings. (Damn cheap phones....but that's all I have at work ) The only thing that jumped out at me was that the kick sounds boomy, but not all the time. I think if you're gonna adjust anything, it's gonna be minor, because this sounds great already as it is.

 

[karumba]

Awesome. I actually already have it being put through a chorus. What I did, was put the mono-signal through a chorus, then put the stereo outs of the chorus through the spatializer, to widen the chorus even more. I'll upload 2 tracks tonight for your discerning ear: 1. No chorus, no spatializer. 2. Chorus only.

i see. chorus into spatializer must be that weird sounding. looking forward to hear the other 2 versions.

Thank you for taking time on this. Also - is your name "Jan"? Were you the one who mastered Gerry and Joey's tracks? If so, you do very impressive work.

yes, thats me.
thanks for the compliment! you are this in-house-drummer here, right?

 

[dastrick]

Let me tell you guys something. Jason (Poetic) was a pleasure to work with. He went above and beyond the call of duty to make us happy. We didn't have a very big budget and had very little time (go figure) and he went out of his way make sure we got a good, quality product.

If any of you are in need of drums for a song or need a song mixed, I highly recommend him. I'm sure I'll be using him again.


And thanks for the comments about the song. I'll be sure to pass them on to the band. Actually the songwriter/guitarist is a member of this forum (itaughttremonti).

Not sure if any you have questions about the tracking, but if you do just let me know.

 

[PoeticIntensity]

Okay, guys... Thanks for your comments. I have 3 new mixes for your listening pleasure, and I'm really curious as to what you guys think, because quite honestly - the version I still like the best (by far) is the one with both spatializer and chorus filters switched on. Here are the new mixes:

Mix 4 (Vocals EQ / Level tweaked, bass levels reduced, drum reverb reduced, harshness in beginning mitigated, ending fade tweaked, master levels slightly increased and bass compressor tweaked)

Mix 4 No Spatializer

Mix 4 No Spatializer, nor chorus

...and there ya have it. What do you guys think? New mix better? No Spatializer better? Totally mono lead guitar better?

 

[PoeticIntensity]

you are this in-house-drummer here, right?

Well, I don't know about "in-house-drummer" - there are at least two other extremely proficient drummers who frequent this forum... But yes, I'm actively trying to make music my new profession, and included in that is studio drummer. For the curious, I've gotta say my little studio is doing far better than I thought it would this early in the game. A large part of that comes from improvements made through accepting critiques in this forum. Heaven knows I wouldn't go far with my drums sounding like they did when I joined.

Let me tell you guys something. Jason (Poetic) was a pleasure to work with. He went above and beyond the call of duty to make us happy. We didn't have a very big budget and had very little time (go figure) and he went out of his way make sure we got a good, quality product.

If any of you are in need of drums for a song or need a song mixed, I highly recommend him. I'm sure I'll be using him again.

Thank you, Dwayne. Your music was a joy to work on.

 

[karumba]

Well, I don't know about "in-house-drummer" - there are at least two other extremely proficient drummers who frequent this forum... But yes, I'm actively trying to make music my new profession, and included in that is studio drummer. For the curious, I've gotta say my little studio is doing far better than I thought it would this early in the game. A large part of that comes from improvements made through accepting critiques in this forum. Heaven knows I wouldn't go far with my drums sounding like they did when I joined.

ok, i see. regarding your studio: thats good to hear. critiques is the best thing you can get. thx for the info. as you know, i'm new here

Okay, guys... Thanks for your comments. I have 3 new mixes for your listening pleasure, and I'm really curious as to what you guys think, because quite honestly - the version I still like the best (by far) is the one with both spatializer and chorus filters switched on. Here are the new mixes:

ok, as a basis, i like w/o spat and w/o chorus best. but i see that you would like to have more width+depth on the lead guitar (or on the track in general, since it sounds a little bit too "mono" to me). in that case, i would use a longer reverb (maybe 3s) and a stereo delay an the leadguitar. both FX should be leveled that you don't really hear them but when you switch them off it makes a difference. try also to bring it out just a very little of the center. e.g. 0.5-1dB (~10-20%) to the right could help.
the acoustic guitar: did you track/play it twice? if not, i would do so & pan it a little bit more outside, so you have some space. the distorted guitars in the refrain (played/tracked twice?), i would pan even more outside to give it an "open" effect in the refrain.
these are just some ideas you maybe like to try out.

 

[dastrick]

the acoustic guitar: did you track/play it twice? if not, i would do so & pan it a little bit more outside, so you have some space. the distorted guitars in the refrain (played/tracked twice?), i would pan even more outside to give it an "open" effect in the refrain.
these are just some ideas you maybe like to try out.

Because of time restraints and to cut down on the mixing time, we didn't double track anything. Originally I was going to double track acoustic guitar and vocals, but it just didn't happen.

The acoustic gtr. was tracked with a Studio Projects B1 about 6 inches away from the soundhole and a Behringer C2 about 8 inches away from the 12th fret aimed towards the soundhole.
The electric is an SM57 against the grill of an amp.

Retracking the parts is not out of the question, but unlikely unless Poetic wants/needs me to do so.

 

[Greg_L]

Listened to mix4 - no spatializer nor chorus:

Overall pretty balanced. My only nit is the drums. They're kind of flat and lifeless and too buried compared to the rest of the instrumentation, which sounds very good. In particular, the snare. The side-stick on the snare sounds really good, but the full whacks sound dead and muffled. There's no way a side-stick should be louder and cleaner than a full snare whack, which is what's happening here. The kick and toms sound pretty nice and punchy, but the snare is the weak link. Too much overhead, not enough close-mic, and/or you're not capturing it well. A nice clean snare crack is all this song needs to be ready.