Lead guitar tone

WhiteStrat

WhiteStrat

Don't stare at the eye.
DISCLAIMER: This isn't a song or a mix to evaluate; more a test of a lead tone on which I'd welcome opinions. Still this is the best place to post it, so...

I find it easy to record rhythms with an amp and a mic. But as much as I love the sound of a wailing lead through a tube amp, I find it hard to get a rich lead tone--and :-)eek::eek:) so I often go back to my old POD patches for leads.

But I love the sound of my recently new Carvin legacy--so I've been working on translating that to a recording. I'm getting there--at least enough to actually be encouraged. This isn't THE tone, but at least A tone.

Legacy lead test

(The rhythm progression cycles through before the lead comes in)

Thanks!
 
Wow, sounds awesome. I had a legacy many, many moons ago. lol This track makes me miss it somewhat!~
 
Zombre said:
Wow, sounds awesome. I had a legacy many, many moons ago. lol This track makes me miss it somewhat!~
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Thanks man--chatting with you in that other thread got me motivated to complete this little test. When I mentioned to you that I had been tracking late at night, I was comparing different mics on the amp.
 
Yeah, this sounds solid. Very thick and meaty but with a nice bite. Hard to know what it'd sound like in a full mix...but as presented here, it sounds fine.

Something in particular you don't like about it?
 
heatmiser said:
Yeah, this sounds solid. Very thick and meaty but with a nice bite. Hard to know what it'd sound like in a full mix...but as presented here, it sounds fine.

Something in particular you don't like about it?
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Thanks heatmiser. No, nothing in particular I don't like about it. Sometimes I just think I'm too close to the forest to see the trees. I get so involved in tweaking my setup, that I fear I might be subconsciously convincing myself that something sounds good when it really doesn't. At that point, it's time to hit record and get some second opinions!
 
WhiteStrat said:
Thanks heatmiser. No, nothing in particular I don't like about it. Sometimes I just think I'm too close to the forest to see the trees. I get so involved in tweaking my setup, that I fear I might be subconsciously convincing myself that something sounds good when it really doesn't. At that point, it's time to hit record and get some second opinions!
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Cool, that makes sense. This 2nd opinion is that it sounds great. You're ready to roll.
 
First of all, nice playing. It sounds great. If you're looking for something to change it might be the low mids. In a couple of places the growling rhythm guitars and the lead kind of step on each other, but it's only when the lead dips into the lower range. Keep in mind, this is total nit-picking. If I could get that guitar tone, I'd be ecstatic.
 
guitar zero said:
First of all, nice playing. It sounds great. If you're looking for something to change it might be the low mids. In a couple of places the growling rhythm guitars and the lead kind of step on each other, but it's only when the lead dips into the lower range. Keep in mind, this is total nit-picking. If I could get that guitar tone, I'd be ecstatic.
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I agree with this.

I don't like scooped guitars, but I think a little tiny scoop in the low mids would help it sizzle a little more. I think in a full mix with other distorted guitars this tone would either get lost or have to be really loud to be articulate. It works in a sparse mix like this, but it's still a little dark. But it's definitely not terrible. That's a pretty sweet sound by itself.
 
It sounds pretty decent to me. It could maybe stand to be a hint brighter. What amp settings did you use?
 
guitar zero said:
First of all, nice playing. It sounds great. If you're looking for something to change it might be the low mids. In a couple of places the growling rhythm guitars and the lead kind of step on each other, but it's only when the lead dips into the lower range. Keep in mind, this is total nit-picking. If I could get that guitar tone, I'd be ecstatic.
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Greg_L said:
I agree with this.

I don't like scooped guitars, but I think a little tiny scoop in the low mids would help it sizzle a little more. I think in a full mix with other distorted guitars this tone would either get lost or have to be really loud to be articulate. It works in a sparse mix like this, but it's still a little dark. But it's definitely not terrible. That's a pretty sweet sound by itself.
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Thanks Zero & Greg. Yep, the amp itself tends toward the dark side. And the guitar is very midrangey with a definite "honk" right in the mids to low mids--so I think you're right on target. I'm also using multiple mics--one of em is a ribbon is darker, and I featured it prominently in the mix. I'll try to brighten it up a bit.
 
Sounds a lot like my 70's Gibson Explorer in tone, although it needs a bit more presence in the mix, I love the deep tone of that guitar. Good riffin'
 
The rhythm tone sounds sweet man, great job! Definitely has a laid back feel good for the blues/acdc type stuff. Good job on the lead tone, it's warm and clear.

Not saying this is your issue, but generally when people have trouble capturing a rich lead tone it's the micing. People think of lead guitars at the top of the mix and so they assume they should mic directly on axis in front of the speaker cone so they can capture the "brightest" tone. That brightness doesn't come from a ton of Highs, it comes from a nice, warm, clear recording. I find that when micing for lead guitar tones (I record metal mainly), I get the best, richest tones when I mic either on-axis about (assuming a standard 12 inch speaker) at the middle of the paper, or slightly off axis, pointing at the cone but placed closer to the outside of the speaker. Typically, when you mic right in front of the cone you pick up a bunch of useless hi-end fizz and noise, and not much actual body. The body comes from the paper, and it's better to have too little hi-end and adjust with EQ than to have too much and try to boost the low-end with EQ. if your tone is too dark, you can add a slight hi-shelf and still have a somewhat clear low-end. I find that massive EQ layers to fix the bass-mids of a guitar track muddy it up and kill it's clarity.
 
Greg_L said:
I agree with this.

I don't like scooped guitars, but I think a little tiny scoop in the low mids would help it sizzle a little more. I think in a full mix with other distorted guitars this tone would either get lost or have to be really loud to be articulate. It works in a sparse mix like this, but it's still a little dark. But it's definitely not terrible. That's a pretty sweet sound by itself.
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^^^^^ A pretty complete analysis ^^^^^

........ even in this mix, for instance, it sounds a bit distant ...... that's probably mainly because the low mids of the lead and rhythm are clashing and the rhythm's winning. So I think it'll need to bite just a little more to cut thru.
Nice playing man and a really nice sound generally speaking.
 
...sounds light years better than my 5150 into the 412 w Celestion G12m70s (those dogs just won't hunt).
How 'bout we trade and I'll even throw in a feather, so we'll both be tickled!
 
I've not heard you play like that before...I don't think you know just how good a player you are. Every time I hear something by you, I think it's my favorite noodling by Mr. Wanky..now this one is.:D

That said..I love the tone..ya know, this is just one of many tones you'll be getting a hold of..just enjoy the ride and take it..and/or let it take you...if this is what they call scooped out guitars, then I like em scooped!

Can't wait to hear more from your search for the lost tone...
 
ocnor said:
It sounds pretty decent to me. It could maybe stand to be a hint brighter. What amp settings did you use?
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Ah...there's my fellow Legacy owner! (I wish my recording sounded like yours did--but then I'd need your fingers, huh?)

Settings:

Volume 1.5 to 2ish
Gain 7
Bass 7
Mid 7
Treble 6
Presence 3
 
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BuzzHaze said:
Sounds a lot like my 70's Gibson Explorer in tone, although it needs a bit more presence in the mix, I love the deep tone of that guitar. Good riffin'
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Thanks Buzz. Do you know what your Explorer was made of? This guitar is one I made myself--thick mahogany body with a maple cap--very thick sounding guitar. Only has a bridge pup so it's a one trick pony--but it's a fun ride.

Zombre said:
Just gave it another listen for kicks. What mic and processing steps did you take on this?
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Here's where it gets tricky. I've actually got 3 mics in there. I wanted to compare some likely suspects on the same take so I found a sweet spot for 3 at once--with no phasing.

Also (and this may be weird--but it works for me) I split one of the mics with an iso splitter and record it both dry and through a stereo FX unit. That's more for my headphones, because for leads, I just need to hear some chorus & delay. I go ahead and record those 2 FX tracks just for kicks, but since I also have that mic dry, I can use plugins for whatever FX I want. In this case, I just used the FX from the rack unit.

So, while there's no processing after the fact, there is just a bit on the way in. Here's the set up:

Shure SM57 panned hard left
Audix i5 panned hard right
Cheap ribbon mic in the middle.

The ribbon is the one I split. So besides the ribbon track in the middle, there's also a hard left & right FX track of the ribbon mic.

In case you're counting--yep that's 5 tracks for a lead solo. Tad bit complicated, huh? I need to work on simplifying the setup.

After A/B-ing it, I'm convinced the 57 & i5 are too similar to create any real texture. That's where I'll start the simplifying.
 
WhiteStrat said:
Thanks Buzz. Do you know what your Explorer was made of? This guitar is one I made myself--thick mahogany body with a maple cap--very thick sounding guitar. Only has a bridge pup so it's a one trick pony--but it's a fun ride.
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The original 1959 Explorer was made of Korina hardwood but the 1976 Limited Edition re-issue (like mine) is Mahogany so that's probably why they sound so similar. The Explorer is pretty thick and heavy too, but I love it. I bought it new in 1977 for $699. I think I finally have it broken in now.....lol
 
WhiteStrat said:
Ah...there's my fellow Legacy owner! (I wish my recording sounded like yours did--but then I'd need your fingers, huh?)

Settings:

Volume 1.5 to 2ish
Gain 7
Bass 7
Mid 7
Treble 6
Presence 3
Click to expand...

No I think your fingers can handle it. The Legacy seems to translate better if you set the EQ just a little brighter than you think it should be. I've been getting fairly good results with these settings:

volume - 2
gain - 7
bass - 6
mid - 7
treble - 6
presence - 7
 
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