ok guys here it is i know its been a while since my last post, ive been so busy with my band and all. but anyway i gott some new toys and wanted to record so i did a cover of one of my favorite tunes of all times.i used my new zoom gfx8 for the guitar sounds and this thing screams. please let me know what you think of the mix, there are a few timing issues with the drums because i used my synth for drums and im still learning timing with it. so plaese let me know how everything sounds and dont be afraid to rip me up. thanks ahead of time and god bless. tim pate http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=1751&alid=-1 mustang sally is the song.
i will not waste your time wanna learn.
- Thread starter flash2ace
- Start date
i think alot of it is the way i eq it.i dont have good monitors i just have pc speakers so its realy hard for me to get a good response from them ill try adding some low end to it and ill bring the bass guitar up a bit to.what kinda monitors do you have syd, i listened to it through my home theatre and i had to turn the bass up quite alot to get some response so i kinda figured that would be a problem. thanks for responding.
ok i am uploading the new mix with the changes syd suggested. i hope it sounds better now. i am real frustrated with my approach to using eq. i mean i understand that you should try and record as close to the sound you want as possible and i believe i did but i thin i just use eq to much. i have a dumb question, i use sonar 2.0xl and if i use the graphic eq and the bands i leave at 0 doesnt change that frequency or am i wrong. like if i just wanna change the 1k frequency where do i put the other bands at? i know it seems like a dumb question and im sorry for that but the way i see it is the only dumb question is the question you dont ask. thanks ahead of time, there should be alot more low end in this mix so hope it is better.
Hey Flash...I'm just using computer monitors as well. I'll give the new mix a listen!flash2ace said:
OK....I'm gonna feel like a jerk! Now the bass is too dominant. Sorry man! I don't mena to put your stuff down! The drums are really burried. It's gotta be tough with just computer monitors to mixdown!
thanks syd, ive pretty much given up on ever being a recording engineer. i mean you come here and listen to guys mixes such as crawdad, ad chris harris, and so many others and its like no way will my stuff ever sound that good.and besides im realy dedicating all my time to my guitar playing for now and writing music for my band. but id still like to be able to record a very good demo, you know the one where your buddies hear it and say dang that sounds great.thanks for your help. and god bless you.
Hey Flash...First of all, God bless you too! And thanks! But please don't give up. These guys that you've mentioned have been at it for a long time, and they are really good at it. I am constantly floored by some of the stuff I hear on this forum. My stuff will never compare to them either....but guys like me and you still have to work on it to get better. Don't try to be a "recording engineer", just try to make good demos. If you write a song and give it to the guys in the band in the form that you posted here, they would be able to hear their parts, and for a demo that's all that matters. But it's just like guitar...the more you practice, the better you'll get. Not to worry friend!!flash2ace said:
thats no problem ill go and cut the bass down a little bit and bring the drums up a hair, i dont mind because this is how you learn and besides i take critisism well.i will have the new mix posted somtime tommorow gotta go to bed soon have band practice early in the morning.i will remix it tonight and upload tommprow, it seems to take forever to upload at least a hour or so.thanks for your prompt answers. i know maybe i need to send this to chris harris and he can add a cowbell for me that will sit it off.(lol) goodnight and god bless you all.
crawdad
Dammit, Jim, Shut Up!
Tim--I agree--never give up on this. You can get it--anybody can if they put the time into it. You shoulda heard my first stuff! ChrisHarris has gone up several notches since he came here too. So have a lot of others who are now blowing me away with their work. You are gonna get better and better at this.
I have a feeling that I know what your problem is--you have too much information and it's confused you. Happens to me all the time! Let's break this down to basics, using your posted tune , Mustang Sally.
Before we even think about EQ or effects, lets listen to the raw sound sources and think about the arrangement. At the foundation of the song, we have bass and drums. The first key thing is to get the bass and the kick drum working sympathetically with each other. When they are, they create a pulse that is more than the the two separate parts. On your mix, the bass is drowning out the kick. Change the levels of both until they hit the sweet spot. For lack of a better example, listen to some Fleetwood Mac tunes. They were masters at getting this part right.
Moving on to the snare, your snare is lacking in all midrange components, like it was EQ'ed out. It doesn't sound like a real drum anymore. Try using no EQ first, and a general rule is that the snare is as loud or louder than the kick.
Your hi hat is the loudest drum by far. It needs to come back to the point where you hear/feel it keeping time, but not any more than that. Imagine playing with the drummer in your band as if you were standing by him and ry and mix the kit like you would hear it live.
Once you get the drums/bass grooving, I would do two things that you didn't do here. First, I'd add a rhythm electric guitar. Fairly clean, panned to 2 or 3 o'clock, say left. I'd also add a keyboard-either piano, electric piano or organ--panned 2 or 3 o'clock opposite side. Niether of these have to be real dominant--they are just reinforcing the groove. Most ensembles are bass/drums/keys and rhythm guitar. If you can get that working, you'll just be filling spots with guitar fills and horns, etc.
Anyway, once you have all the parts, try to mix everything so you hear what is going on on all the instruments before you start EQing anything. Get the mix as good as you can get it with no EQ. AT that point, walk away for an hour.
Come back, and listen to the balance of the frequencies. Is there a big lump of low end? Figure out whats causing it, and EQ the selected area until that cardboard-sh sound goes away. Is there anything that pierces your ear? Its midrange. Figure out whats doing the damage and tweak that with cuts until it sounds natural without the spike.
Now, for the hi end, go back and forth between a CD you like and your mix until you get a similar degree of hi end in your song.
Now, go back and listen for each instrument and drum kit part and see if its all there. If something has disappeared, try bringing it up a bit with straight volume before you try and EQ it into existence. Consider EQ as fine tuning, not as the key component of a mix. The most important things are always the recorded source and the relative levels and pans. EQ is added after you have all that working.
Then, if you want, play with the reverbs and echoes, etc. Consider those spice also--a little goes a long way. (Listen to me! Mr. Reverb Over-user!
)
Try and see what you come up with.
I have a feeling that I know what your problem is--you have too much information and it's confused you. Happens to me all the time! Let's break this down to basics, using your posted tune , Mustang Sally.
Before we even think about EQ or effects, lets listen to the raw sound sources and think about the arrangement. At the foundation of the song, we have bass and drums. The first key thing is to get the bass and the kick drum working sympathetically with each other. When they are, they create a pulse that is more than the the two separate parts. On your mix, the bass is drowning out the kick. Change the levels of both until they hit the sweet spot. For lack of a better example, listen to some Fleetwood Mac tunes. They were masters at getting this part right.
Moving on to the snare, your snare is lacking in all midrange components, like it was EQ'ed out. It doesn't sound like a real drum anymore. Try using no EQ first, and a general rule is that the snare is as loud or louder than the kick.
Your hi hat is the loudest drum by far. It needs to come back to the point where you hear/feel it keeping time, but not any more than that. Imagine playing with the drummer in your band as if you were standing by him and ry and mix the kit like you would hear it live.
Once you get the drums/bass grooving, I would do two things that you didn't do here. First, I'd add a rhythm electric guitar. Fairly clean, panned to 2 or 3 o'clock, say left. I'd also add a keyboard-either piano, electric piano or organ--panned 2 or 3 o'clock opposite side. Niether of these have to be real dominant--they are just reinforcing the groove. Most ensembles are bass/drums/keys and rhythm guitar. If you can get that working, you'll just be filling spots with guitar fills and horns, etc.
Anyway, once you have all the parts, try to mix everything so you hear what is going on on all the instruments before you start EQing anything. Get the mix as good as you can get it with no EQ. AT that point, walk away for an hour.
Come back, and listen to the balance of the frequencies. Is there a big lump of low end? Figure out whats causing it, and EQ the selected area until that cardboard-sh sound goes away. Is there anything that pierces your ear? Its midrange. Figure out whats doing the damage and tweak that with cuts until it sounds natural without the spike.
Now, for the hi end, go back and forth between a CD you like and your mix until you get a similar degree of hi end in your song.
Now, go back and listen for each instrument and drum kit part and see if its all there. If something has disappeared, try bringing it up a bit with straight volume before you try and EQ it into existence. Consider EQ as fine tuning, not as the key component of a mix. The most important things are always the recorded source and the relative levels and pans. EQ is added after you have all that working.
Then, if you want, play with the reverbs and echoes, etc. Consider those spice also--a little goes a long way. (Listen to me! Mr. Reverb Over-user!
)Try and see what you come up with.
ok im gonna do just that, my biggest problem is my drums it is so hard playing the drums on a keyboard but i am getting better at it. i try and put the bass drum hits in on one track and then i try and put the snare on another track so i can mix them seperately or just replace the sounds with drumagog if possible.ive started a remake of stevie ray vaughn pride and joy and im gonna try and make it sound as close to his recording as possible.i just bought a very old fender deluxe reverb amp and its all tubes and man does this thing scream. ive never heard such a amp as this, i think it is only 30 watts but with the volume on like 6 the tubes start to overdrive and man does it have tone from hell.only paid 300 bucks for it. i ordered a sm57 just yesterday from musicians friend and along with my knew mexican made strat with texas specials i just installed that will be my setup.as usual crawdad you have alot of very good info here and i appreciate it alot my friend. if you ever get a whole cd together let me know id love to buy 2 of them from you,one for me and one for my mom.thanks again and ill work harder with the dry mix and get it all set up and then see if it needs eq or not.thanks again. god bless tim pate.
joro
The Pie Guy
OK....one more time...
Well....
My left ear is fried from the flu....
I'm better now but the residual is like a "swimmer's ear" effect....
Doc says it will go away with time but, I can't gauge audio levels or seperation listening in "joro-mono"....
so........
after that rather lengthy preface....(for the third time today...)
I really dig this tune man...it is one of my favorites...
because of my narrowed ability to "hear" what's going on....I can reall only comment on a couple of things....
Tempo......too slow.....or does it actually slow down as the tune progresses?
arrangement.......horns are cool but you should use them more in the fills where there just seems to be bass....
leave the "band emsemle" as is but fill with a solo....sax...or whatever....ya know?
performance......other than the tempo issue....this is really well done...
Hey man.....
a very short time ago...I was in the same boat as you....mixing on headphones and computer speakers.....my mixes really sucked (not that they are great now...no sir-ee) but, once I got a set on monitors....things improved drastically for me...
I use KRK V-4's....they are small but they do a great job....
got em' for $245 a piece....it's really worth it....ya know?
Take it easy man...
Joe
Well....
My left ear is fried from the flu....
I'm better now but the residual is like a "swimmer's ear" effect....
Doc says it will go away with time but, I can't gauge audio levels or seperation listening in "joro-mono"....
so........
after that rather lengthy preface....(for the third time today...)
I really dig this tune man...it is one of my favorites...
because of my narrowed ability to "hear" what's going on....I can reall only comment on a couple of things....
Tempo......too slow.....or does it actually slow down as the tune progresses?
arrangement.......horns are cool but you should use them more in the fills where there just seems to be bass....
leave the "band emsemle" as is but fill with a solo....sax...or whatever....ya know?
performance......other than the tempo issue....this is really well done...
Hey man.....
a very short time ago...I was in the same boat as you....mixing on headphones and computer speakers.....my mixes really sucked (not that they are great now...no sir-ee) but, once I got a set on monitors....things improved drastically for me...
I use KRK V-4's....they are small but they do a great job....
got em' for $245 a piece....it's really worth it....ya know?
Take it easy man...
Joe
well i have still not remixed this yet. im gonna wright after church today.
crawdad, drumagog is a program that replaces the sounds in a drum track with samples you put in it. you can take your fingers and tap on your computer desk and mich it and then use drumagog to replace the sounds.
as far as quantizing goes i would have to use midi for that and have never messed with the midi prospect much because of the learning curve or maybe just because of my lazziness to learn midi. lol. thanks for commenting all you guys i will remix this after church today. i had band practice yesterday from like 1pm to 10 pm and was super tired of music after that lol. i did just buy a bbe sonic maximiser and have not used it yet and dont realy know what it does yet. i gott the software version. and im saving my pennys to buy a drumkit for my studio and some good michs, even though im not much of a drummer i would rather learn to play real drums than use midi.thanks and god bless.
crawdad, drumagog is a program that replaces the sounds in a drum track with samples you put in it. you can take your fingers and tap on your computer desk and mich it and then use drumagog to replace the sounds.
as far as quantizing goes i would have to use midi for that and have never messed with the midi prospect much because of the learning curve or maybe just because of my lazziness to learn midi. lol. thanks for commenting all you guys i will remix this after church today. i had band practice yesterday from like 1pm to 10 pm and was super tired of music after that lol. i did just buy a bbe sonic maximiser and have not used it yet and dont realy know what it does yet. i gott the software version. and im saving my pennys to buy a drumkit for my studio and some good michs, even though im not much of a drummer i would rather learn to play real drums than use midi.thanks and god bless.