How to get more oomff

Twampy

Twampy

New member
Hi All,
On working on my mixes I can't get the overall volume up on the final mix, I make sure all the loudest tracks are peaking but not going into the red and I am using compression on most tracks but not on the final mix. I use Sonar X2 and export the final mix using the preset that says "what you hear" My drums always sound a bit lost as well so any suggestions on getting a bit more volume out? I have tried starting with just the drums and bass then building up the track from there but it's still a bit flat.
I'd be grateful if you can have a listen.
Best wishes for for the holiday season.
View attachment Seerkind work in progress 3.mp3
 
To get the whole lot louder you'd use a limiter as part of your mastering regime - easy to overdo, however, and completely kill the dynamics. Go read some stuff in the mastering forum above, perhaps.
 
"More volume"? I think what you probably are looking for is more dynamics? Your mix sounded good, but what are you doing compressing all the tracks? You may be taking all the dynamics out of them all.
 
I've not compressed all the tracks but I have done most of them just to keep them from peaking too much on the guitars and vocals plus the singer voice drops a bit in the verses so I've used compression to level it out.
What concerns me is when I send my friend a copy he always comments that it is lower than professional tracks.
I've done a new version where I've used a limiter on the final mix which I will upload the next time I am on my PC.
 
If you're not mastering, it will not be as loud as commercial tracks, period. By today's standards it could be as much as 8db quieter!

EDIT: There's *way* more to 'loudness' than mastering, but a perfect mix still won't get commercial levels without mastering.
 
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As has been mentioned, using a Limiter will bring up your RMS levels. You can push that about as hard as you want, but it will come at the cost of hurting sound quality. There are good free plugins. Try them out. Push your levels as high as commercial releases. Listen to how it crapify's your sound quality. Loud mixes that sound good are really hard to do.

Another aspect of this is perceived loudness. You can have two mixes at the same RMS levels, yet they may not "seem" to be at the same level. The types of tones you record have an impact. For example, I'm noticing your guitar tones sound like a solid state amp or a "digital sounding" amp sim. I would imagine that, with tones like that, you'd never get perceived loudness up to where a commercial releases are, no matter how hard you slammed them with a limiter. There's just no "umph" in the guitars to begin with.

The bass is a bit loud. And a bit sterile sounding.

Vocal is a little bit buried. It's a little cloudy sounding.
 
I'm with TripM on this one. Doesn't sound like there's any "Umph" there to boost in the mix. I would say your problem is in the mixing area. It almost sounds like everything has a low pass on it.

The kick and the bass need attention for me. I can barely hear the kick. It's like a little fart that's audible every now and then. The bass is too mid/top heavy for me. Needs to bottom end to fill the void then you could lower the volume of it a touch. The guitars could use a bit of meat in them. They seem a bit treble heavy as is the rest so you're leaving an unfilled space and things like the brass are fighting for space.

How are you mixing this? Headphones/monitors? Room any good?

Personally, I'd definitely re-address the mix before worrying about volume. Start with drums and bass again. Get that kick drum pumping with the bass. You need that foundation solid.

I really enjoyed the song though and I think it'll be a cracker when you get a good mix. :thumbs up:
 
Thanks, pretty much agree with your comments. I am listening through studio monitors. I have just bought them and am waiting on my stands turning up so they are sitting a bit low on my table.
 
I can't hear the vocal anywhere near well enough.

Overall, the mix sounds thin, uppish, brittle. You've over-EQ'ed stuff I think. Ease back on the highs and upper mids. You can afford more warmth in the lower end.
 
You have two issues.

Your overall level, which is the reason for your post. Mastering techniques will help raise this. More seriously, though, is the need to address the mix and dynamics of this track.

It starts, goes, then stops without any effective variation. Even with its modest -20db average RMS, it is tiring to listen to. This would only be worsened by raising the level and flattening the dynamics even more.

Mr Clean has summed up the main areas that need attention pretty well:

1 vocals up
2 better defintion of the very low end (kick and bass)
3 less brittleness in the guitars.

But it needs more than just this. Think about how you can introduce variety into the song. Maybe take out all instruments except bass during a verse . . . something just to wake up the listener.
 
Twampy said:
Now I have also done the same as before but without using the limiter on the final mix, I have just raised the master volume as far as it will go without letting it go into the red.
View attachment 90993
Click to expand...

On this new mix, IMHO:

- the drums disappeared;
- the bass guitar is jumping all over the place. The bass lines aren't working with the bass sound. Change either the lines or the sound;
- turn down the gain on the guitars. A lot;
- but the main problem is the arrangement: there's too much going on all the time. TMI. My brain can't concentrate on anything.

The overall volume should be the last of your worries at this particular moment of the production process.



EDIT: actually, I have one humble arrangement suggestion: drop the poppy, obnoxious synths completely and try to get a good mix with just drums/bass/guitars. Do your homework, it'll take time. After you have a good, solid sounding mix, maybe try adding the synths back to a few selected parts (choruses, etc) to enhance them - but I bet the synths won't be missed...
 
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