jimmys69
MOODerator
I stand by yesterdays comment. Totally feel like there should be some lead stuff at end of tune like the lead stuff at the intro.
Great song man! Well done!
"Forgiven"
- Thread starter sullivan1213
- Start date
I stand by yesterdays comment. Totally feel like there should be some lead stuff at end of tune like the lead stuff at the intro.
Great song man! Well done!
FingerzAndKeyz
Member
OK, here's my input on this. For the most part, it's already sounding damn good, and what I have to suggest might be my personal preferences more than technical issues.
I'd like to hear more upper mids in the snare, to bring it out in front a little more. I'd also like to hear a bit more highs for the consonants in the vocals, to help bring the lyrics out a bit more. When the guitars are playing, it seems you hear the vocal, but unless you know the lyrics, in some places, you can't make out what you're singing.
I'd also like to hear a bigger bass guitar. Not too much, but you hear a good kick drum, and it seems the bass guitar should be closer with that. I also agree that there should be some kind of solo at the end, a melodic thing that kind of melts everything down to the final acoustic section. Maybe something that starts out meaty and ends tastefully melodic?
You might not be a keyboard player and I assume that's a VST string sound (cello?) in the beginning. It sounds very nice, but I think it would sound even better, if you didn't just repeat what you play the first few bars again, in the next few. There's a musical term called counterpoint that basically means you have two instruments playing countering parts, but they harmonically accent each other in the process. Keep the original part, but add a second one with the notes going up to counter the one going down, on the second few bars. Keep both subtle and clean, nothing overbearing. Think like a string player would.
And lastly, I prefer a slower fade out. But the cricket sound...it seems you just start to hear it alone and then all of the sudden, it's gone, and too fast.
I know most of these are personal things with me, so they are just suggestions, for the most part. And everything I've suggested about frequency changes, I'm really thinking very small changes. Nothing too drastic, because the song is sounding pretty good, as is. I guess I'm just a little anal about my personal choices, sometimes.
I'd like to hear more upper mids in the snare, to bring it out in front a little more. I'd also like to hear a bit more highs for the consonants in the vocals, to help bring the lyrics out a bit more. When the guitars are playing, it seems you hear the vocal, but unless you know the lyrics, in some places, you can't make out what you're singing.
I'd also like to hear a bigger bass guitar. Not too much, but you hear a good kick drum, and it seems the bass guitar should be closer with that. I also agree that there should be some kind of solo at the end, a melodic thing that kind of melts everything down to the final acoustic section. Maybe something that starts out meaty and ends tastefully melodic?
You might not be a keyboard player and I assume that's a VST string sound (cello?) in the beginning. It sounds very nice, but I think it would sound even better, if you didn't just repeat what you play the first few bars again, in the next few. There's a musical term called counterpoint that basically means you have two instruments playing countering parts, but they harmonically accent each other in the process. Keep the original part, but add a second one with the notes going up to counter the one going down, on the second few bars. Keep both subtle and clean, nothing overbearing. Think like a string player would.
And lastly, I prefer a slower fade out. But the cricket sound...it seems you just start to hear it alone and then all of the sudden, it's gone, and too fast.
I know most of these are personal things with me, so they are just suggestions, for the most part. And everything I've suggested about frequency changes, I'm really thinking very small changes. Nothing too drastic, because the song is sounding pretty good, as is. I guess I'm just a little anal about my personal choices, sometimes.
sullivan1213
New member
Appreciate the comments. Thank you. I can agree with the upper mids in the snare. I have wrestled with that on and off. Originally I think it was TOO bright. Then I backed off the under-snare mic to tame it. Maybe it was too much. I'm torn on the bass. After finishing mixes on my monitors, I test them in both my and my wife's cars. Her car will tell me immediately if the bass is too loud and, right now, it's right on the edge of being too much. As you say, could just be a personal preference thing. I will definitely consider what you said about the intro part. I hadn't given it a lot of thought as it's kind of a here-and-gone thing within the song but you're definitely not wrong.
Thanks again,
FingerzAndKeyz
Member
Ha, well, that's one thing about mixing...everybody and their cousin has an opinion. And finding a neutral system that gives you a true flat response is near impossible, these days. Actually, you're never really finished, because you can always find something to tweak. You just have to tell yourself it's finished, or go crazy rethinking yourself. The choice is yours.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Ok, so we are still moving with personal opinions here. Take them for what they are worth. 
4:13 thru 4:56 I strongly feel needs some tasty solo riffs man. The song to me starts to lose interest a bit without a creciendo to the end acoustic part. Then the crickets, If not lowered in volume I would maybe look for a better sample. That sounds like a repeated sample of 'angry' crickets. Who likes angry crickets? lol! I found a few samples while exporting project from Freesound.org.
Many times adding an ambient natural sound in background (layering) with what you are looking for creates a more realistic soundscape. Just a suggestion.
The bass guitar seems to sit nicely on my studio speakers, though I haven't listened in my wife's car tho. Funny enough, I do that too man.
Again, sounding really good man! It the last 5% of fine tuning that seems to make a song shine all the way through. Just my opinion tho. This is your baby.
4:13 thru 4:56 I strongly feel needs some tasty solo riffs man. The song to me starts to lose interest a bit without a creciendo to the end acoustic part. Then the crickets, If not lowered in volume I would maybe look for a better sample. That sounds like a repeated sample of 'angry' crickets. Who likes angry crickets? lol! I found a few samples while exporting project from Freesound.org.
Many times adding an ambient natural sound in background (layering) with what you are looking for creates a more realistic soundscape. Just a suggestion.
The bass guitar seems to sit nicely on my studio speakers, though I haven't listened in my wife's car tho. Funny enough, I do that too man.
Again, sounding really good man! It the last 5% of fine tuning that seems to make a song shine all the way through. Just my opinion tho. This is your baby.
jimmys69
MOODerator
So much truth in that right there^^^!
spantini
COO of me, inc.
Re the bass.. Being a bass player, I almost always want to hear more of it. For me, many times it will be loud enough but not as present
in the mix as I'd like. I was almost going to suggest tweaking the mid-range up a bit to give it a clearer sound, but instead I kind of
tilted my hearing a bit and came at it from another direction.
This bass is very tight with the drums, and the drums are excellent (in my phones, anyway). They are as one instrument, one or two areas
aside. I usually listen with an ear towards the bass following the vocal melody but here you've got it hitting hard and rock solid rhythm,
leaving the vocal to carry the tune - and it's working great, I might add.
With this vocal, it would also work very well unplugged.
p.s. when the drummer rolls on the toms it reminds me of progressive jazz I was into in the 70's - very nice.
in the mix as I'd like. I was almost going to suggest tweaking the mid-range up a bit to give it a clearer sound, but instead I kind of
tilted my hearing a bit and came at it from another direction.
This bass is very tight with the drums, and the drums are excellent (in my phones, anyway). They are as one instrument, one or two areas
aside. I usually listen with an ear towards the bass following the vocal melody but here you've got it hitting hard and rock solid rhythm,
leaving the vocal to carry the tune - and it's working great, I might add.
With this vocal, it would also work very well unplugged.
p.s. when the drummer rolls on the toms it reminds me of progressive jazz I was into in the 70's - very nice.
sullivan1213
New member
Once again, thank you all for your thoughtful comments. This is a really cool community with a ton of smart, talented, and helpful folks.
With regard to the comments about the end section, there is definitely solo work AND additional vocals planned for that section. Apologies for not having done it yet. Sadly, I am the type of person who, in the absence of the "perfect" idea, will do nothing for long stretches and ponder the possibilities. I know I need to just get to work, see what happens, and go from there. I will try in earnest to have that completed by this weekend.
As regards the "angry crickets," the sound was provided to me by my co-writer friend. I had to chuckle at that. Although, since the lyric comes from a place of anger and forgiveness, perhaps angry crickets are appropriate. Who knows?
With regard to the comments about the end section, there is definitely solo work AND additional vocals planned for that section. Apologies for not having done it yet. Sadly, I am the type of person who, in the absence of the "perfect" idea, will do nothing for long stretches and ponder the possibilities. I know I need to just get to work, see what happens, and go from there. I will try in earnest to have that completed by this weekend.
As regards the "angry crickets," the sound was provided to me by my co-writer friend. I had to chuckle at that. Although, since the lyric comes from a place of anger and forgiveness, perhaps angry crickets are appropriate. Who knows?
spantini
COO of me, inc.
I'm exactly the same way. Some songs will stay in my head for years while I work out all the angles and even think about putting it to guitar.
Cool tune. Great performances all round esp the vocals. On headphones the vocal has a slightly piercing quality in the choruses. My only other nit is the kick sound doesn't seem to fit the rest of the kit. The toms are nice and deep but the kick is just slap happy - maybe try another sample with less attack more boom. I see you've had plenty of suggestions already - that's always a good sign 
Nice job
Nice job
slimcharles42
New member
Hi Sullivan, looks like you've already had some great feedback from everyone here already, so I'll keep this brief. And of course, just opinions.
Really reminds me of listening to some classic Alter Bridge/Submersed - nice stuff. Really love it, the mix sounds pretty great overall. A couple of small points:
- the chorus vocals are great but there is something about the way they sit in the mix that sounds a little odd to me. Might just be personal preference, but sounds to me like they could be a tad brighter, perhaps?
- similarly, the lead part at 00.50 sounds like it could be a bit brighter too. Again, just personal preference.
- Have to echo comments around some kind of solo or something during the 'seven sisters shine' ending section. (I live in Brighton, England - we're very close to the actual Seven Sisters - not sure if that was a reference or not!)
This song is great though, a very enjoyable listen and what sounds like a heartfelt tribute. Good stuff.
Really reminds me of listening to some classic Alter Bridge/Submersed - nice stuff. Really love it, the mix sounds pretty great overall. A couple of small points:
- the chorus vocals are great but there is something about the way they sit in the mix that sounds a little odd to me. Might just be personal preference, but sounds to me like they could be a tad brighter, perhaps?
- similarly, the lead part at 00.50 sounds like it could be a bit brighter too. Again, just personal preference.
- Have to echo comments around some kind of solo or something during the 'seven sisters shine' ending section. (I live in Brighton, England - we're very close to the actual Seven Sisters - not sure if that was a reference or not!)
This song is great though, a very enjoyable listen and what sounds like a heartfelt tribute. Good stuff.