**Final Mix?** Ready for mastering house?

MC Gitarz

MC Gitarz

New member
http://www.nowhereradio.com/MCGitarz/singles
Mstr - Never Say I'm Sorry Again

Good day!!
Be forewarned - I'm asking you to listen to some bluegrass.
I know now why it's better to have someone else do the mixing on a project - this is making me crazy - every little dB of EQ or one little tweak of a fader and the whole shootin' match gets an alteration! So I'd appreciate some clean ears on this mix. I'm thinking it's pretty darned close to final - since I just re-tracked the whole thing!! (I started with a slightly out-of-tune harmony vocal and then one thing led to another.......)
At issue for me is the placement of the mandolin, banjo and rhythm guitar. My intentions are: banjo is just for rhythm purposes - I don't have it leveled up too high but it is the anchor on the right channel. Rhythm guitar is anchoring the left. The mando is at about 24% R. I've moved it all over the place and it just gets buried everywhere else but I think it's too close to the banjo - or?? If you hear something that's just plain EQ'd wrong perhaps it will give me some freedom to spread the instruments more evenly. But I'm not real dissatisfied with the mix - it might just be the final.
As always - your assistance is greatly appreciated. I plan to give about 40 of y'all a credit on the inside of the CD cover. (Now there's an incentive!!)
Thanks in advance!!
~Milan

p.s. - this tune is one for the guys. Seems we never get a say-so at the end of a relationship. This time I got the last word!
 
Superb.

Ain't mixing a bitch? I hate it, if I'm honest. :)

You did an excellent job, Milan. Playing is terrific too.

At gunpoint I'd say that the vocals could be warmer. But on the other hand: it sounds nice and crispy, so I'm not sure about that.
 
Great stuff! Sounds great. To be honest there's not a lot I can do to be useful, I can't think of any suggestions to make. The harmonies are lovely (but very Bluegrass). How was it recorded? :D
 
my only thought might to stick the banjo in the middle and pan the mando and the guitar since they are both 'kinda' chopping and more similar to each other than the banjo is to either. But what you have works well too, especially with the gtr break. I'd also put another instrument break right after the guitar..even if you have to shorten up the guitar solo. I also tend to pan things a little wider too, but that's cause I like headphones.

Balances and EQ stuff sound good to me. Watch that the guitar rings out longer than the other instruments on the final fade note too.

why people want to play anything and have distortion, power chords, slammin' drums and stuff is beyond me!! This is the stuff for the Autobahn!! (sp?) ....well ...a little phasor on the banjo is ok!!;)
 
on thinking about the panning, a little more. The locations are a tough decision to make. Mainly because just twiddling a pan knob is kinda unrealistic in a "REAL" sense. It is not like you hear things so starkly set to one side or another in a REAL bluegrass setting. I've heard some recordings where the instruments are recorded in stereo and then panned, and the realism was a bit better. In 'more current music,' where you just double the power guitars and split them, leads down the middle, stereo drum OH.. etc... it is ok because you aren't nec looking for a real soundscape. There is a decision with this kind of music if you are[looking for realism] or not.
 
first off, it sounds really good.........good song, good playing......

i think the mando is still getting lost on most parts other than the intro.....that's got to be an eq issue i would think.......maybe try cutting a little space out of the rhythm guitars....or maybe even the vocal (they kind of sound like they've been eq hyped at times)............

maybe it could be accomplished w/ panning though.......i'm not expert at mixing bluegrass stuff, but i did try my hand at it this summer a bit w/ my brother........here's a link to a few of those tracks ( http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3429&alid=-1 ).....that might give you some examples of some things that might be worth trying for panning....or some things not worth trying:D ......a lot of these are live takes though other than a couple........one thing i might suggest is the following..........it seems even when guitar and banjo are panned fairly close together on the same sie, they keep some clarity.......maybe try banjo at like 35%L and guitar at 50%L and then mando at like 45%R to get that seperation......just an idea

good stuff man!
 
sounds really good over here.. I have zero suggestions for improvement... mixmkr and powder seem to be on the case.. top notch harmonies man.. are they tuned at all?
 
MC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bloody awesome Man!!!
I think mxmkr could have a point re: panning.
I suggest you do more flattop guitar solos, that was GREAT.
Vocals fit great. This is a really well done mix.
Be sure and let me know when the album is done so I can get MY copy:D :D :D

Dan from Canada
 
THANK YOU!!

Thank you, folks!
I really appreciate the quick-turn - makes me feel 'special!!' Some really good ideas here, too. (I thought I was finished!) It's great being associated with so many fine musicians!!

Pedullist - Thanks for the kind words!! Warmer vocals, eh. Well here's something I'm beginning to discover - the vocals are compressed a little but there's hardly any EQ at all. The lead has a 2db cut at 200hz - that's it. The hi and lo harmonies are pushed at 5khz by about 2db, too. The tone is a little edgy on the master played through the monitors but the mp3 seemed to bring all the highs up a notch. Weird. I'll talk to the mastering engineer about it - because I think warmth is required on this style. (Of course it helps to have a pleasant voice!! - Mine is Marlboro-ized.!)

CanopuS - Thanks for listening! Signal chain: large or small condenser mic to ART Tube MP pre to compressor to line-in jack of Boss BR-1180. Since you were discussing mic placement the other day I should point out to you that I had a hellacious time finding the right spot to mic the solo guitar - it just wouldn't rise to the top without being compressed (and I really didn't want to do that.) Took me maybe 20 takes just to find the spot and it still could be tweaked - we'll let the ME do that!!) I record everything straight through - no punch-ins, no cut & paste magic, just rehearsed until I get it right.

Mixmkr - Now there's a thought! Shoot it straight up the middle. I had that damned banjo in every conceiveable spot except up the gut! So there goes my 'duh' factor rating again! damn! I'm gonna try that. It's not a very pretty part - just some rhythm - I'm not adept at fills just yet. But that might free up some space on the right for the mando - which has some moving parts going on. I don't really consider the soundscape too much with this type of music. I let it evolve. I have tightened some of my mixes based on Groucho's suggestion a couple months ago. So I'm getting into a bit of a rut, I guess. I'm going to try your idea this week. Thank heavens for non-destructive editing! And you're right - another indtrumental break would be cool - if I get another wild hair to recut a couple tracks I might just do that. I can knock this out in a jiffy now that I have the parts rehearsed. Thanks again for the critical listen!! Oh yeah - almost forgot - excellent catch on the fade!! I'm impressed. There's a bit of noise on the mando track after the decay so I hurried to the track mute button and whacked the wrong track. So I cut the fade really tight. The guitar and bass decay are quite nice on the original. Wanna play some banjo on the next CD?

Powderfinger - Thanks for the ears!! I downloaded "Blue Ridge Cabin" but my ISP cut me off in the middle of both attempts at the others - I'll get to them. Between you and Mixmkr I'm sure I'll get the feel I like. You're right about the banjo and guitar sounds but I noticed your banjo picker was playing a real banjo mine is a piece of guano. The banjo should have that cool pluck - mine has a dead thud! I have to tweak the EQ a bit on it to get it into the mix. And if you read my response to Pedullist you'll see I really didn't hype the eq on the vocals but they really came out edgy. I guess it was just the right combination of eq and compression that created the edge. I'll be playing with that this week for sure - that was a weird occurrence - or my ears were failing me. Thanks again for the assist!! I'll post up the final mixdown and we can all have another hack at it. I appreciate your time and advice!

B.Sabbath - nosiree bob, no autotune for me - don't even know what that is!! I need to do a search and see what the deal is. What caused me to retrack everything was an out-of-tune high harmony that was caused by the out-of-tune guitar!! I couldn't believe it - I'd been playing around with this tune for a couple weeks and that was the first time I noticed the foundation was out of tune!! I'm old and old-fashioned so I just rehearse and play until I get it right (or close!!) Thank you for the compliment - that means a lot!!

Dragonworks - Thanks, man!! I appreciate the kind words and the time you took to listen in. I must say I've recorded my share of twang-laden rock in my time, though. Couldn't help it - they paid me lots of money to do it. (I guess there's a name for folks like that!!)

HevyD47Ca - As always - I appreicate your ever-so-kind compliments! I'll ping everyone when the CD is done. Christmas is my goal since my wife bought me the BR-1180 for Christmas last year. I think I'll make it. Between Mixmkr and Powderfinger I think I'll find the right solution. I gotta tell you - I needed a break from the wooden music so I pulled out the Strat and started (attempted) to jam along with your E-flat Boogie - I couldn't hang. That is absolute smokin!! I couldn't even mimic your rhythm bed - that's some mean guitar slingin' there. But I had fun trying! If only the neck was a little shorter - say about as long as the mando!! That flattop solo nearly ripped my fingers off - those stretches were tough. Thanks again!!
 
I owe you guys a beer!

2nd Final – Never Say I’m Sorry
http://www.nowhereradio.com/MCGitarz/singles

The banjo is now at L8 the mando at R37 (guitar is at L47). I also took the +2db off at 200hz for the lead vocal. (Tried to ‘warm it up’ for Pedullist!!) I like the mando part a whole lot better on the right. And the banjo still just plays the rhythm maker role. At first blush I like this sound a lot. If you care to compare – lemme know what ya think!!

So come on over to Germany and I’ll buy y’all a REAL beer!
Thanks a million for your help on this project!
~Milan
 
CanoupuS - almost forgot to answer your question:
Rhythm guitar and vocals - Behringer B2
Solo guitar and mandolin - Audio Technica At 33
I think the 'sparkle' comes out of my fingers!!:D
Bass is DI'd with a cheap, passive DI box into the ART pre.
~Milan
 
Holy crap MC, where did you come from?


That is some real authentic sounding bluegrass and GOOD authentic bluegrass.

Didn't realize you had the pipes like that, where was that voice on your other stuff? Very nice rich vocals that work perfectly for the genre. The harmonies and doubling was very tight and clean.
The banjo sounds great, the bass lines reek of authenticity nice writing.

Seriously, I can't find a fault with the recording. Excellent job.
 
Damn, this is nice. If I had to nitpick I'd say I might like a touch more "thump" on the bass. But sheesh, this sounds great.

Chris
 
Thanks!!

Prozkgrl – Thank you for the compliment! If you’d like to hear some more I just finished “Never Find Another Love Like You” and added it to my “Songs From the Attic” page. You’ll also probably like “Amanda” and “Teardrops.” Thank you for listening!!

Khompewtur – Did I detect some surprise in your comments? Hell I’m just an Irish whiskey-swillin’, fat-bellied bumpkin at heart! None of that sherry stuff for me – too up-town! Thanks for the notes of encouragement and praise – it means a lot!! And I’ve talked to Santa – I think there’ll be a POD under the Tannenbaum this year.

CyanJaguar – It’s nice to hear encouraging words from someone who’s tastes are different from others’. I tip my hat – I’ve learnd a lot out here from listening to music I wouldn’t think would interest me. Evolution is fun! Thanks again for listening.

Groucho – Always a pleasure to hear from you! I appreciate the nit-picks – actually I’m hoping to get some more bass thump from the mastering house. I’m reading an article about recording bass right now – I’d love to be able to simulate an upright bass using an electric bass. I’ve experimented with the COSM effects for bass loaded into my mini-work station but I haven’t done enough tweaking to find a decent thumping bass. I’ll be starting a new project after Christmas so I’ll be fiddling with the knobs some more. Thanks again for lending me your keen ears!!

~Milan
 
I think that 2nd panning worked ok.. I still like it wider, but I suppose getting toooo wide isn't always a good idea....especially on certain systems.


one other thing I heard...but didn't mention. In the intro...the timing on the mando (on the downbeats...beat one of the measure) seems a tad off...especially the last chord before the song kicks in. or....more so...it is off with the guitar.

now that you cut some EQ on the vocal, I think you can boost the volume up a bit now too.


banjo...next CD? honored you asked..but I gotta learn to play it first! I'm getting better though! About 15 of the "easy" standards under my belt now.

and...I think your banjer could come up in volume in this mix too.
 
i think this panning works much better.......you can make out all the instruments a lot better now i think........banjo could use a little more level even..........sounds great
 
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