Fables - Rock/Alternative

P

PhilLondon

New member
Posted a non vocal version a while ago and finally got my friend to come round and lay the vocals down.

I know some don't like the washing of cymbals, but I think it suits this intro in this song so that's staying, anything else is fair game. :)

Any thoughts?
Latest version:



Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Hey Phil. I'm going to talk mainly composition here, hope that's okay. It's a promising start. I'm not sure the two intro parts really fit with each other or with the body of the song. For my money, the song really begins where the singing starts. I really--really--like the verse, excellent melody, strong arrangement. The chorus (the part that begins "hold on") not so much. The melody just didn't hit me in the same way, and I think your singer might tell you the same. To me it felt more like a mash-up of parts that were written separately. I liked the breakdown toward the end, though the levels seems chaotic. I've heard better guitar solos from you.

Okay, you like that wash of crash cymbals. We've discussed that before. But must they be so loud?
 
I dunno, it feels right to me as I've always had the song written that way, from the intro into the big part into the verse. And then it comes full circle back into the big part. It was written that way, composition wise it won't change. The chorus is difficult, he likes it, I wanted to figure something else out, but I can live it with because time is an issue for him. Perhaps I should stress it a bit more. I don't think it's bad though.

The cymbals can come down, but I'm not sure what you mean by chaotic. Do you fee that the guitars are too loud, or what is it?

Personally I really like the way the two guitar parts at the end interplay, but that's a subjective thing I guess.

Thanks for your time.
 
I searched for a more specific word than "chaotic" but didn't find one. I guess what I meant was that the levels seems incongruous with the feeling of that particular part of the song. It's like a softer outro that follows after the heavier part before. But the drums are still hammering, if anything louder than before. That melodic statement in the part is being carried by that guitar in the center, but the level is being overwhelmed by that sort of harsh rhythm guitar doing an intermittent rhythm pattern just to the left of it, which sounds to me like it's almost clipping. I've learned the hard way not to try to guess how much compression is in a particular song, but it might be that the louder parts are overloading your compressor and pushing down the softer parts. Hope that helps.
 
Do you mean it's harsh because it's a bit loud and overwhelming, and doesn't let the lead part come through? Aside from the levels I don't hear a conflict between the two guitars, it's meant to be an interplay between the two. One is all lead and the second is a more rhythm/lead combination. Do you not think it works?

Yea the drum part probably is a bit loud and aggressive, you're right.
 
We are talking taste here. You've heard my music, so you know where I'm at with that. I do some of that dueling guitar stuff as well, you can hear an example in the outro solo of my latest posting. For me, the key to getting that to work is separation and contrast. You can get that contrast in different ways--level, panning, tone. Your two guitar parts are pretty close together in the stereo spread--left center, and center IIRC. Tonally they were similar--same guitar for both? Most importantly, the level of the one playing more of a supporting role seemed higher than the level of the one in the more melodic role. That sort of thing, combined with the loud drums, is what caused the word "chaotic" to pop to mind. By "harsh," perhaps overly loud combined with a strong attack.
 
Ok, you like the cymbal wash , but you could bring their volume down a bit on the crashes - specially when they are constant crashes, as it becomes fatiguing (not in the intro or outro). The vocal sounds a little buried during the part before each chorus.
 
Okay that does make some sense, Robus. Although the two guitars are separated equally off centre by the same amount. How would you pan them?

And mjb - I think I'm thinking about the track as a constant, and not thinking enough about the dynamic of the actual part that is being played. That's a good lesson right there.

The thing with the part with the cymbals is that it's meant to be big, and it just doesn't have the required impact with a hi-hat, even if it's open and brought right up. I feel that this part in particular needs this. But I will bring it down somewhat and have a listen.
 
Last edited:
Personally, I'm a fan of hard panning guitars. Often all my guitars are hard right or hard left. If that's too drastic, you might try hard panning one and pushing the other a little farther out in the opposite side. Try different combos and see what sounds best to you.
 
Okay. I've made a new version with less washy cymbals. I always get drawn to the washy cymbals but I guess that I am eventually convinced out of it. I think that now I'll leave them in the past. :D

I'm not sure about whether the loud bit at the end into the breakdown works in terms of levels. Is it too quiet? Any other concerns? Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/demosandideas/fables-v2
 
Last edited:
My tow cents. Listened on headphones. The vocal lead may need a cut around the 2-3K region. You might need to sweep it to find the part that needs cut. It makes the vocals a little hard to listen to louder. The level seemed correct, just an area that made it hard on the ears. Everything else seemed to sit well. Nothing stuck out to me.


General comments:

Start was too hard. You may want to push that peak down since it is at the start. Intro was too long, you could cut that in half and still have a good intro. There were a few areas that could be reduced in length, after 4 minute mark and before 4:29, between 4:47 and fade. Good song, just it could be reduced and not take away from the song.

Overall, sounds good, I like the vocals, has that Pete Townsendish feel to it, and I always liked his vocals. His vocals really come out on Empty Glass.

Nice work.
 
I like the tune. Agree that the intro could be shortened considerably, or maybe start with less and build more...
I like the play between the guitars and bass at the end. Really like the right guitar tone.
Also agree the cymbals are overpowering in some parts of the song (especially the big one on the left).
 
Okay I've shorted it. The song ultimately is for me and my friend alone, so it's okay if it's over indulgent. But for the sake of a better song, I thought that I'd give it a go. Perhaps the intro does take away from the song.

 
Nice track. The vocals are coming across as a little harsh and the cymbals are kind of hot, so together they unbalance the overall mix towards the top end.

Nice drum sounds. What are you using?

Very solid playing across the board.

Cymbals seem to be phasing here and there. Could be soundcloud if you're not hearing that in your space.

Nice punchiness and attackiness to everything. Sounds like everything was well recorded. The trade off to this degree of attack to everything is that there is a little bit of a sense that things could gel together a bit more.

Good job overall. How it is translating in my mix space is a little on the harsh side as mentioned. The guitars tend to get a little bit harsh along with the vocals and the hot cymbals.
 
"The song ultimately is for me and my friend alone"
In the end, that's all that counts. If you like it as is, leave it as is. No one's saying it's horrible. It sounds great, but it could sound better...the endless cycle. The hardest thing in the world is knowing when to let your babies go. ;)
 
kindafishy said:
Nice drum sounds. What are you using?

Very solid playing across the board.

Thanks. :) I'm using the drummer program in Logic for the drum sounds and my Kemper for all the guitar stuff.
Click to expand...

BroKen_H said:
"The song ultimately is for me and my friend alone"
In the end, that's all that counts. If you like it as is, leave it as is. No one's saying it's horrible. It sounds great, but it could sound better...the endless cycle. The hardest thing in the world is knowing when to let your babies go. ;)
Click to expand...

Thanks. :) It means a lot. I know what you mean, but I post this here for advice, and while I am generally happy with it as it was, I know that there are people who can help me tweak it. So if someone gives me advice I'll always try it, if I really don't like it I won't keep it, but I'll always give it a go.

EQing vocals is difficult for me. Sometimes I feel they pulsate with the drums or something. Also the bass drum seems to pump a bit. How do you get around that?
 
If you've got a compressor on a bus and are feeding it loud and soft sounds, those loud sounds are going to trigger the compressor and push everything down. The soft sounds are going to get buried. I don't know a way around it, other than use less compression. There are techniques like side-chaining but I couldn't tell you much about them as I don't use them. Personally, I compress as little as possible.
 
I'm not using masses of compression to be honest. I try and level the vocals with automatation so that I don't have to compress that much.

I'll keep it in mind. Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top