Thanks mate. I'm pretty happy with where the harmony vocals are now. I've still got a short list of things that need sorting (more bass, conflicts between lead and doubled lead vocal, less reverb on the lead vocal, electric guitars masking the vocals later in the song, some nastiness still happening in the drum track). I'm pleased with the song.
Delilah: New Song. Rough mix.
- Thread starter Robus
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PhilLondon
New member
Doubling the lead vocal is a nightmare. I should really take another look at that on my song.
The Foo Fighters seem to double every chorus and it sounds perfect. I'm doing like 200 takes and it's still off.
Have fun!
The Foo Fighters seem to double every chorus and it sounds perfect. I'm doing like 200 takes and it's still off.
Have fun!
EightMilesHigh
Member
First off, this is an excellent song and performance. I'm a big fan of R.E.M., the Byrds, the Searchers and Robyn Hitchcock, so I really enjoy this sort of number.
I have a couple of minor critiques: I feel there are places where the lead vocal doesn't make a lot of impact, and it's usually when the guitars get a bit heavier. (The Aral Sea section is one example.) It sounds beautiful and mellow in those areas, but I would imagine you'd want the lyrics to be heard (they too are really fine). I might try boosting a little 5k in some of these areas, or some of the air frequencies. Or, you may want to reduce some of the 240 boominess, and then turn the lead vocal up just a bit, in places. I wouldn't make radical changes to these frequencies, but a little tweaking can go a long way.
The instrumentation sounds great to me. One of the guitars in the Aral Sea section seems a bit loud. It's on the right side, and is a string-bending lead right around the phrase "broken springs of time." I would turn it down just a tiny bit, very little. If you feel it doesn't have the impact you're looking for, tweak the eq at the lower volume and see if it's any better. If you don't notice an improvement, just leave it the way it is, because it's a pretty minor issue, and it may just be a matter of taste that decides it.
The ending is abrupt, and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but there is a click on the left side that sounds like hitting stop on a recording machine. This is at the tail end and a bit distracting. I'd get rid of that sound if you can.
Here's an opinion that might fly in the face of conventional wisdom, but I liked the weird vibrato. The nervousness enhances the mood and makes it sound more personal. I wouldn't worry about redoing the vocal, unless there's one occasional little phrase or tick you just can't stand. It's up to you, but as an unbiased outside observer, I don't think there's anything needed to improve the vocal performance.
I have a couple of minor critiques: I feel there are places where the lead vocal doesn't make a lot of impact, and it's usually when the guitars get a bit heavier. (The Aral Sea section is one example.) It sounds beautiful and mellow in those areas, but I would imagine you'd want the lyrics to be heard (they too are really fine). I might try boosting a little 5k in some of these areas, or some of the air frequencies. Or, you may want to reduce some of the 240 boominess, and then turn the lead vocal up just a bit, in places. I wouldn't make radical changes to these frequencies, but a little tweaking can go a long way.
The instrumentation sounds great to me. One of the guitars in the Aral Sea section seems a bit loud. It's on the right side, and is a string-bending lead right around the phrase "broken springs of time." I would turn it down just a tiny bit, very little. If you feel it doesn't have the impact you're looking for, tweak the eq at the lower volume and see if it's any better. If you don't notice an improvement, just leave it the way it is, because it's a pretty minor issue, and it may just be a matter of taste that decides it.
The ending is abrupt, and that is not necessarily a bad thing, but there is a click on the left side that sounds like hitting stop on a recording machine. This is at the tail end and a bit distracting. I'd get rid of that sound if you can.
Here's an opinion that might fly in the face of conventional wisdom, but I liked the weird vibrato. The nervousness enhances the mood and makes it sound more personal. I wouldn't worry about redoing the vocal, unless there's one occasional little phrase or tick you just can't stand. It's up to you, but as an unbiased outside observer, I don't think there's anything needed to improve the vocal performance.
Thanks for that! I enjoy that kind of music too, although it is not what I usually do. I was thinking Old 97s when I recorded this song.
If you're just hearing the latest mix, you might not appreciate the full awfulness of the vibrato on the original version I posted... It was truly a thing to hear.
I re-tracked the lead vocal completely, focusing on minimizing the vibrato as much as possible. It's still there, but I think not as bad. That's just where I'm at as a singer right now. I've been working at vocals and hope to improve.
What to do about those guitars toward the end is an issue that remains to be sorted. There may just be too many of them. I've got three electric guitar tracks in there. I stacked them all toward the right because I wanted to hear that acoustic guitar lead on the left. They may need to be turned down, one or more of them killed, or EQed somehow to give space to the lead vocal. The one I think is essential is the Tele through an overdriven Fender amp that does that kind of hard alt-country rhythm under the first bridge and comes in again under the solo and the Aral Sea part.
Within the next few days, I'm going to do another mix from the ground up and make some hard choices. First and foremost, I want the lyrics to come through. So everything else is secondary. Thanks for the compliment about the lyrics. I like the way they turned out. When I was writing them, I had this down in my mind as a genre song. That kind of freed me to go a little more over-the-top with the lyrics than I might with the kind of songs I typically write. I may write more songs in this genre--it's fun!
Thanks for pointing out the click at the end. I probably missed a zero point when I was slicing a wav file. I'm thinking about ending the song right there on "please" and cutting the last two measures.
I appreciate the frequency tips. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to mixing, so specific suggestions like that are very helpful.
If you're just hearing the latest mix, you might not appreciate the full awfulness of the vibrato on the original version I posted... It was truly a thing to hear.
I re-tracked the lead vocal completely, focusing on minimizing the vibrato as much as possible. It's still there, but I think not as bad. That's just where I'm at as a singer right now. I've been working at vocals and hope to improve.What to do about those guitars toward the end is an issue that remains to be sorted. There may just be too many of them. I've got three electric guitar tracks in there. I stacked them all toward the right because I wanted to hear that acoustic guitar lead on the left. They may need to be turned down, one or more of them killed, or EQed somehow to give space to the lead vocal. The one I think is essential is the Tele through an overdriven Fender amp that does that kind of hard alt-country rhythm under the first bridge and comes in again under the solo and the Aral Sea part.
Within the next few days, I'm going to do another mix from the ground up and make some hard choices. First and foremost, I want the lyrics to come through. So everything else is secondary. Thanks for the compliment about the lyrics. I like the way they turned out. When I was writing them, I had this down in my mind as a genre song. That kind of freed me to go a little more over-the-top with the lyrics than I might with the kind of songs I typically write. I may write more songs in this genre--it's fun!
Thanks for pointing out the click at the end. I probably missed a zero point when I was slicing a wav file. I'm thinking about ending the song right there on "please" and cutting the last two measures.
I appreciate the frequency tips. I'm a rank amateur when it comes to mixing, so specific suggestions like that are very helpful.
EightMilesHigh
Member
The Old 97's are great, and it's funny you mention them, because the song I'm about to post is a bit reminiscent of their style - acoustic but rocking verses and distorted choruses. Yeah, perhaps I am just hearing the latest mix.
I think the tele part is what I was commenting on - it's well played and adds to the song, but the balance just needs to be tweaked there, or maybe some other guitar part should be turned down to make room.
BTW, the 5k area is where the presence and sibilance are, so even a small boost in that area can make a voice cut through. Toy around with boosting and cutting that while listening to the isolated vocal, and you'll see the impact that frequency has.
Yeah, I definitely recommend writing more in the genre, great idea. You have the skills for it.
I think the tele part is what I was commenting on - it's well played and adds to the song, but the balance just needs to be tweaked there, or maybe some other guitar part should be turned down to make room.
BTW, the 5k area is where the presence and sibilance are, so even a small boost in that area can make a voice cut through. Toy around with boosting and cutting that while listening to the isolated vocal, and you'll see the impact that frequency has.
Yeah, I definitely recommend writing more in the genre, great idea. You have the skills for it.
PhilLondon
New member
It's something that I need to look into a bit more. I've been a bit lazy with that. Do you mean via automating? Did you see a good video on it somewhere?
PeteHughes
New member
I think your top priority is to stabilise the pitch and vibrato of the vocals.
To do this in the past I've used Waves Tune. The vocal in one of my songs (shown below) was nearly a full tone out of tune, and fairly unstable vibratos and sustain, but I managed to do a pretty reasonable job of getting it all back in key and stable.
The beauty of Waves Tune is that it shows you the pitch of all the sung notes throughout the song, and then allows you to draw (with a pencil tool) what you would like the pitch to be correct to. So you can even draw in vibrato if you want. This is much better than an "auto tune", because if gives you full artistic control over every element of the sung note. Just be careful, because the greater the frequency of pitch correction, the more "auto tuned" it sounds. But if the pitch was pretty good in the first place (as yours is), then to correction is much less noticeable.
My understanding is that pretty much all professional vocals undergo kind of this treatment, so don't feel bad about using it.
Waves Tune Vocal Pitch Correction Plugin | Waves
To do this in the past I've used Waves Tune. The vocal in one of my songs (shown below) was nearly a full tone out of tune, and fairly unstable vibratos and sustain, but I managed to do a pretty reasonable job of getting it all back in key and stable.
The beauty of Waves Tune is that it shows you the pitch of all the sung notes throughout the song, and then allows you to draw (with a pencil tool) what you would like the pitch to be correct to. So you can even draw in vibrato if you want. This is much better than an "auto tune", because if gives you full artistic control over every element of the sung note. Just be careful, because the greater the frequency of pitch correction, the more "auto tuned" it sounds. But if the pitch was pretty good in the first place (as yours is), then to correction is much less noticeable.
My understanding is that pretty much all professional vocals undergo kind of this treatment, so don't feel bad about using it.
Waves Tune Vocal Pitch Correction Plugin | Waves
I heard that tip in a Melodyne tutorial vid. If you're not using pitch correction, you could still duck the consonants using volume automation on the track in your DAW. It could get laborious to do all of them. I'd just solo the main and doubled vocals and listen for conflicts, then apply the ducking to address those specific areas. Here's the vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_jCuzIKSk
PhilLondon
New member
The Flex Pitch plugin that comes with Logic has all those features, although it's a different. I can manipulate vibrato and even choose the key signature for the song, which will force the notes into that key. Also I can change the length of notes, drag them out, remove sections and force the note to continue etc. It's really good, especially as it was a free update. It's essentially the same as all the others.
I use correction on all my vocals, but I'll get as good a take as possible otherwise it's so obvious, and in the end it's not really affecting it that much.
I use correction on all my vocals, but I'll get as good a take as possible otherwise it's so obvious, and in the end it's not really affecting it that much.
Outss
New member
sounds very old school .. which isn'ta bad thing i like it because not alot of people make what they want these days .. the songwriting aspect is cool the singing even works with the folky style of it all .. some of the doubles are a bit messy but in the days of analogue , nothing was perfect and the mistakes make it special! good stuff .. rtf when u can
https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...-never-die-neo-soul-ft-debbie-mcneill-383178/
https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...-never-die-neo-soul-ft-debbie-mcneill-383178/
jimistone
long standing member
nice song. good writing in my opinion. I agree with the earlier comment that the vocal is too hot in the beginning and towards the end of the song it's buried by the electric guitar. I would suggest backing off the vocal level at the beginning and then bringing it back up when all the instrumentation is going while backing off on the electric guitar level. Also, I think the vocal needs tightening up. It's not a bad vocal...just has a shaky spot here and there. Outstanding electric guitar sound IMO.
great job!
great job!