"Almost Forever"

JohnnyAmato

JohnnyAmato

New member
New song of mine, been working pretty hard on it the last few days. Tracked all the instruments/music in one long night, about a 14 hour session (I'm a nutcase) 'cept for the solo, which was done the next morning, well, afternoon. Then spent the last three days tracking/tweaking all the vocals. I'm spent.

I'm sure the mix has a long way to go, I think I got it in a good spot to give her a break for a day or two.

Mix was done entirely on my headphones so far, so hopefully it's not too off...

Almost Forever | Johnny Amato

"Almost Forever"

We had it all
Streets full of dreams, the world to be seen
Climb up the wall
Over the road, we had all the gold
Flyin' up high
Into the sun, we flew on the run
Along for the ride
All night and day, 'til they took you away

No, I don't believe
In anything at all
There's nothing I can see
That could've stopped my fall
I know it could've been better
Alone tonight, we were almost forever

Don't know the way
All of my time, no reason, no rhyme
So much to say
Where I went wrong, you knew all along
I look to the sky
Face all the fear as the pain becomes clear
No matter, I try
Tryin' to stay but it all slipped away

No, I don't believe
In anything at all
There's nothing I can see
That could've stopped my fall
I know it could've been better
Alone tonight, we were almost forever

No, I don't believe
In anything at all
There's nothing I can see
That could've stopped my fall
I know it could've been better
Alone tonight, we were almost forever

I know it could've been better
Alone tonight, we were almost forever
 
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The vocal harmonies sound really good here. Your vocal tone kind of gives an America vibe.

Very well put together overall. If forced to criticize, I might say the drums are a little arena-y for the overall vibe of the song.
 
Nicely balanced mix, as far as the instrumental part goes. Bass level is perfect. Guitars are sitting well, doing their job without being overbearing. I understand Steve's comment about the arena sound. I would say the same about that guitar solo--the intro lead to some extent but especially the main solo later on. The ambiance sounds heavier than on the mix as a whole, which makes it seem like a preset. A more intimate sound all around might be worth trying. Maybe go with a smaller room reverb. I'm straining just slightly to hear the lyrics. They are intelligible, but I find myself having to tune in my ears a little more carefully than I prefer to pick out all the words. It's the drums mainly that are competing. You know my preference--lyrics should be effortlessly intelligible on the first and every listen. So if you're going for something different, ignore what I just said.

Listening again, I notice that some words are dropping out a little bit. That might be part of the intelligibility issue. There's some overall inconsistency in the levels. Listen to the first two lines: "We had it all. Streets full of dreams the world to be seen" Notice how the second line seems to fade a little? If you keep listening, the third line is louder, but the fourth fades again.

I think you need to do some more detail editing on that lead vocal, or else compress more. Personally, I would give it a thorough manual edit before adding compression. Lately I've taken to using Waves Vocal Rider plugin, which can automate some of the tedious parts of manual level editing although I do need to check its work to make sure the results are pleasing.

Composition sounds good. Arrangement sounds pretty good, but there's not much variation in the energy level when the chorus arrives (or anywhere in the song). If you could find a way to show off your chorus, it might have more impact.

Performance was top notch as always. Good job.
 
Robus said:
...

Composition sounds good. Arrangement sounds pretty good, but there's not much variation in the energy level when the chorus arrives (or anywhere in the song). If you could find a way to show off your chorus, it might have more impact.

Performance was top notch as always. Good job.
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Nice and tight. Solid. And +1 ^
 
First off, that reverb/ambiance behind the snare is amazing. Is it across the kit or on the snare channel alone? Sound fantastic. The snare itself, with the guitar solos and arena-sound others mentioned, puts this more in 1986 than 2018... but hey, maybe that's the point and what you were going for.

Good song. I agree with Ray that the energy doesn't change much. I think the most simple solution for that is to either add or drop tracks. Sometimes removing guitars can make it seem more powerful, and adding layers of them make it more dense and uniform. But if you were going to try and do something about that issue, I'd look at removing things first before adding tracks.

Still thinking about that snare verb... man that sounds great.
 
This is a great track and I think you should be well pleased with your marathon effort...

It has a great 80s vibe (I was there... I should know!!) ;-)

If I could change anything, i'd make the harmony vocals less muddy... you can hear that they're there supporting the main vocal melody but it just makes it too thick... maybe it's just an EQ fix. Personally I like the snare... it's an 80s-sounding track so it fits right in... think Def Leppard and you know what I mean.

Also as previously mentioned, you need to add a bit of oomph to your chorus... it has the same dynamics as the verse ... considering it is quite an emotive song, I'd wring every last drop drama out of it... you've got great lyrics, a bittersweet melody and a killer guitar solo... crank up the emotion and make the girls cry and the guys feel like crap.

It's also a good idea to leave the track alone for a few days... listen to it again with fresh ears and you'll have new ideas on how to edit / polish.

excellent work!
 
andrushkiwt said:
First off, that reverb/ambiance behind the snare is amazing. Is it across the kit or on the snare channel alone? Sound fantastic. The snare itself, with the guitar solos and arena-sound others mentioned, puts this more in 1986 than 2018... but hey, maybe that's the point and what you were going for.

Good song. I agree with Ray that the energy doesn't change much. I think the most simple solution for that is to either add or drop tracks. Sometimes removing guitars can make it seem more powerful, and adding layers of them make it more dense and uniform. But if you were going to try and do something about that issue, I'd look at removing things first before adding tracks.

Still thinking about that snare verb... man that sounds great.
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Thanks, I spent a lot of time on this snare. I wasn't necessarily shooting for an 80s sound, but I just tweaked until it sounded right. Because of the nature of the song, this is just where I ended up, subconciously probably. Too dry did not sound right at all. Sure it sounds a little "dated", kinda Bryan Adams-ish, but I'm ok with that. When the song was initially in my head, I almost didn't bother with recording it because of that, but said screw it and did it. Here's the snare chain:

-The snare I used was the Slingerland 70's; never use this one, but loved it here.
-The snare top just had a slight 2/3db boost on a 12k shelf, and 2/3db at 220 and 7.2. And 1db of compression (Slate Neve EQ and Slate SSL Comp)
-Snare bottom a 2/3db boost at 100. 1db of compression (Slate Neve EQ and SSL Comp again)
-Snare Bus had the Slate FG-73 preamp, the Hollywood VTC (Tube Collection), FG-Bomber (kind of a transient designer/impact/analog thing), and Revival, a harmonic enhancer (did a few db's of high and low here) All of the above is Slate stuff. And another 1db of compression with the Slate SSL Comp.

Last in the chain, on the bus, was the Waves Parallel Particles, and an L2. The L2 isn't doing any reduction, it's basically just to keep the red lights off, with output set to -0.02.

There's also Revival on the drum bus, the Virtual Tape Machine (Slate) and the Waves dbx160.

Reverb was the Slate Verbsuite Classics, on the 'Bright Snare Plate' setting. There's also a little bit of a large chamber there, but only a little, it's getting much more of the plate. Again, I wasn't shooting for an 80s huge snare sound, I just tweaked until it sounded right/fitting to me. The toms got a pretty good dose of that reverb as well. The hats and OHs are getting just a smidge of it. But that's it.

Also used two SD rooms on this, the close and the mid, but they're pretty low in the mix. Also parallel compressed all the drums with a Waves CLA-76.

I can't stress enough how killer the Slate Hollywood, Bomber, and Revival are. That's where most of the snare tone is coming from. They're amazing. And Waves Parallel Particles is sick too. And I've been loving the smack of the Waves dbx160 lately on the drum bus.
 
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Robus said:
Nicely balanced mix, as far as the instrumental part goes. Bass level is perfect. Guitars are sitting well, doing their job without being overbearing. I understand Steve's comment about the arena sound. I would say the same about that guitar solo--the intro lead to some extent but especially the main solo later on. The ambiance sounds heavier than on the mix as a whole, which makes it seem like a preset. A more intimate sound all around might be worth trying. Maybe go with a smaller room reverb. I'm straining just slightly to hear the lyrics. They are intelligible, but I find myself having to tune in my ears a little more carefully than I prefer to pick out all the words. It's the drums mainly that are competing. You know my preference--lyrics should be effortlessly intelligible on the first and every listen. So if you're going for something different, ignore what I just said.

Listening again, I notice that some words are dropping out a little bit. That might be part of the intelligibility issue. There's some overall inconsistency in the levels. Listen to the first two lines: "We had it all. Streets full of dreams the world to be seen" Notice how the second line seems to fade a little? If you keep listening, the third line is louder, but the fourth fades again.

I think you need to do some more detail editing on that lead vocal, or else compress more. Personally, I would give it a thorough manual edit before adding compression. Lately I've taken to using Waves Vocal Rider plugin, which can automate some of the tedious parts of manual level editing although I do need to check its work to make sure the results are pleasing.

Composition sounds good. Arrangement sounds pretty good, but there's not much variation in the energy level when the chorus arrives (or anywhere in the song). If you could find a way to show off your chorus, it might have more impact.

Performance was top notch as always. Good job.
Click to expand...

Thanks Robus, yea the vocal does need a little more editing. I understand the chorus needing more impact, assuming you mean instrumentally, it's a pretty thin mix instrument-wise. I'll have to ponder that for a bit. The second chorus is where it really picks up with the higher singing, and then the third chorus introduces background aahs underneath the main backgrounds, along with another guitar coming in with power chords. All three choruses bring in the picked/arpeggiated chords, the verses are just that light muted thing. So all three choruses get bigger as the song goes on. I don't want to 'even them out' sorta speak, but I see your point. Just not sure what do yet, if anything.

Used '57 and '62 Deluxe amps from my board for all the rhythm guitars, a Carvin Legacy for the leads.
There is a very lightly strummed acoustic in the verses, my Taylor 816 (strummed rhythmically with quarter notes), the choruses it just matches the picked electrics. It's pretty low in the mix though.

The guitar solo has only a little bit of reverb, what you're probably hearing is the stereo delay on it. It's a ping-pong slapback set to basically no repeats, but it had the effect of a lush reverb, maybe I'll look into taming it down a bit. The delay plugin (Slate Repeater) is set to 50% wet, cutting back on that brings back more of the original sound obviously, so that's where Id start.

Thanks for the great input!
 
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Oh yeah that Slingerland snare is awesome! I've used it a number of times as well, though this sounds different with the ambience behind it.

Did you know Andy Wallace famously used snare samples that had the ambience built into it? (jump to 7:20)

YouTube

Rick is a cool guy, had a few correspondences with him and he puts out great videos too.
 
andrushkiwt said:
Oh yeah that Slingerland snare is awesome! I've used it a number of times as well, though this sounds different with the ambience behind it.

Did you know Andy Wallace famously used snare samples that had the ambience built into it? (jump to 7:20)

YouTube

Rick is a cool guy, had a few correspondences with him and he puts out great videos too.
Click to expand...

Yep, watched this exact video a few times actually. His compression/eq videos are great, too.
 
I really liked the vocal sound. Both lead and harmonies.

Bass sounds nice. So do the clean guitar. I like the chug-guitar part.

The cymbals are a little too present in the mix. They're a bit dominating. A lot of splash and a bit of swish.

For me (you knew I'd say this) there is way too much reverb on this. It makes it an 80's song to me - really makes it sound dated.
 
TripleM said:
I really liked the vocal sound. Both lead and harmonies.

Bass sounds nice. So do the clean guitar. I like the chug-guitar part.

The cymbals are a little too present in the mix. They're a bit dominating. A lot of splash and a bit of swish.

For me (you knew I'd say this) there is way too much reverb on this. It makes it an 80's song to me - really makes it sound dated.
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Thanks TripM. I also thought I left a few crashes too loud, didn't realize it until after I printed and listened later. It's not every crash, but quite a few do need to come down a smidge. Planned on addressing that first when I get back to it in a few days. This was literally the first mix, and was done entirely on my headphones. So I'm pleasantly surprised that I basically got the core levels about right (vocals, bass, kick, snare, etc)

As far as the reverb goes, yea I knew you'd say that :guitar: Believe me, I tried turning it down multiple times during mixing, but it never sounded as good, or as fitting. The only elements that really have a good dose of reverb are the snare and the vocals, and again I didn't like how they sounded dryer. I might just have to live with the fact that I did an 80s tune :facepalm:
 
New mix here and in the OP. Re-tracked the lead for the first chorus, now all three choruses have the higher vocal, and I really think it gives a lift to the song as a whole. Also shortened the vocal reverb decay a little bit, but left the snare alone.

Tamed a few crashes a smidge, hi-passed the backgrounds a touch more, turned a few backgrounds down a tad. And did another round of evening out the lead vocal, particularly the verses. Probably still need to do a little more.

Giving it a break as I'm headed back up to the cabin for the weekend.

Thanks to everyone again for all the great input.

Almost Forever | Johnny Amato
 
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Yeah, this is a big step forward. I noticed right away the jump in vocal level at the first chorus. Good. That gives the chorus a lift.

I heard something on the very last "almost," right at the end of the song. Your vocal is getting tangled up in something. There's a muddiness there. What is that? Something clashing in the lower midrange and then getting smeared by the ambiance? Some interaction between the lead and double, if any? Just a guess. I didn't check to see if it happens elsewhere, but once you sort it out there you should look around.

Sounding good.
 
First, I love the Alan Parsons Project feel to the vocals. It takes me back to a happier time. Guitar work is really cool. The song is written really well. Lyrically there are a couple nit-picky things I might change if it were me with regard to words that feel unnecessary. Example: "No, I don't believe." I'd lose the "no" but, again, that's just me trying on your shoes. I think a live drum track or a more realistic sounding sequenced percussion track would help it out as well. The song certainly deserves it.

Great job!
 
Johnny, man this is a very very good song. I love sound of the first chorus line. I love everything about it. The harmonies are great!
 
LOVE it! Sounds a lot like the bluesy stuff from from the 60's but with a modern take with the great harmonies and guitars.
 
It's a great sounding ballad. My only nit is that the verse melody and composition is so good that the chorus melody/progression is a bit flat/predictable in comparison, until the 'almost forever' line. I dunno maybe I was just expecting something else
 
Bulls Hit said:
It's a great sounding ballad. My only nit is that the verse melody and composition is so good that the chorus melody/progression is a bit flat/predictable in comparison, until the 'almost forever' line. I dunno maybe I was just expecting something else
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Thanks Bulls, yea I kind of know what you mean, but couldn't really think of anything else to do. The vocal melodies for the verses and chorus came naturally in my head, and any way I tried to deviate just didn't feel right or natural to me, so I just went with my first instinct and kept it. It is what it is, I guess. Giving it a break for a few days while I work on other stuff, and still have a few tweaks before the final mix is done, so if anything pops in my head I'll try it. Thanks for the listen!
 
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