would anyone be interested in helping me learn a few things?

N

needmyownstudio

New member
heres the thing. i know very little about mixing. im am going to make an investment soon in some new equiptment such as a pre amp, new mic, makeshift vocal booth, ect. now my problem is i dont want to get all this new equiptment and not know how to work it. so heres what i wanted help with. help me to train my ears. i can tell when a vocal sound is bad, i can tell when a vocal sound is good (for the most part). the main problem i have is i cannot listen to vocals that sound poor and tell what it is in the recording that is making it sound bad. so i was curious if anyone would be interested in checking out a sample of some vocals recorded on the basic mic im working with right now (recorded in my room) and they can do a few things for me, such as:

1. make them sound "like they should", i.e. fix them up as good as you can using like noise reduction, eq, compressor, whatever the situation calls for.

2. explain to me what it is exactly that you did. once i get a general idea i can begin to experiment and learn how the differences between my original version and your "hooked up" version.



i feel this experiment will not only help me to work with what i have now, but also help to train my ears a bit more on the sound im looking for. if anyone is interested in helping me out please leave your email address and i will upload a sample and email you the link, or (i would prefer this one) if you have aol instant messenger leave your screen name this way not only can i send the file to you directly through the messenger, but i can also talk directly with you and get a better "hands on" feel.


all help is greatly appreciated!
 
What type of vocal mic are you using now? What techniques do you use for recording vocals now? What medium are you recording to now? This will all help.
 
The only problem with this experiment is it will teach you how to polish a turd as opposed to avoiding creating turds in the first place.
 
The only problem with this experiment is it will teach you how to polish a turd as opposed to avoiding creating turds in the first place.
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Nicely put Tex!

As asked, what are you using and what are you planning to get. Really, the best way to learn how to mix and record is to just do it. Trial and error and this BBS is going to be a good learning experience!
 
I was thinking of posting something like:


"I know very little about cleaning. But I have a dirty apartment that needs cleaning, trash that could be taken out, etc. etc."

. . . "Was wondering if anyone would be interested in doing it for me. And then, after you're done, tell me how you did it, and how you got it all so clean. Please contact me via email if you're willing to do it. It could be a great experiment and a learning experience for both of us."

I didn't think it would go over very well, but I suppose it would be worth a try. What do you think, needmyownstudio? Maybe I could change my username to needmyownfreelabor.
 
Yo NeedMOS! I know you weren't intending to push Chessrock's buttons, or anybody else's, but a lot of people here do this for a living, a second job, or their every waking minute hobby. Nobody is going to clean up tracks for you for free, which is about as much fun as washing dishes. I will tell you what I have learned by being stubborn, though, and tracking my own album, which was a real dumb idea, but worth it, in the end.
Here's what I have learned about tracking vocals:
1. (this applies to all tracking) Tracking is not mixing. The mission in tracking is to track so that the least possible amount of mixing is needed. Of course, mixing sets the relative volume of each track, and the extent to which the track is panned right or left. Everything else is trying to fix something that was done wrong in tracking. Either the musician sucked/screwed up, the instrument sucked, the song sucked, the room sucked, the mic sucked (either in general, or for that particular singer), the preamp sucked (see above), the gain structure was wrong, there was unwanted noise (either ambient, or coming from the gear itself), or the track was altered in such a way as to make it suck. This is usually called "processing".
1a. This is a corollary of #1. If you have a great performance of a great song by a great musician with a great instrument into a great mic and a great preamp, in a great room, it can only suck so much, and a Chimpanzee could mix it.
1b. Another corollary- Worry about the front end of the signal chain, rather than the back end, first. *Why* are you trying to use compression, FX, reverb, editing, EQ, etc. to fix a track that sucked? Record it again so that it does not suck!

2.- Microphones are kind of like cameras, they require a photographer to select the gear and aim the thing. Microphones are instruments that a singer plays, like a guitarist plays a guitar. A great guitarist on a cheap guitar sounds better than a bad player on a great guitar. Not only does a singer have to learn to sing, but they must learn to play that mic, and not all mics are created equal. With any given mic, you have to know it's sensitivity, its proximity field, it's pickup profile, like you know your instrument.
2.a- a corollary- There is *no* best mic, preamp, or placement, except in terms of a specific singer, room, song, key, mix. Some people weren't meant to sing through certain mics, even *very* good mics. There is no mic/preamp combo so good that I can't find an excellent singer who can make it sound like crap. There is no mic that's best for female vocals, black vocals, rap vocals, or left handed vocals. so-
2.b- corollary- You need options in vocal mics, even if you record only yourself, as different songs will demand different sounds, as will different mixes. If you are a singer, find the mic that makes *you* sound good, pay *whatever* it costs, then get several good cheap mics with a variety of uses to try out on other singers with different needs.

3. The energy a great performer brings to a great live performance is rarely useful in studio recording. The mic does not care how cool you look, and is not impressed by your deep blue eyes. It respects precision and control.


In general, Need, it is a hell of a lot easier to record a good clean track than to try and fix one that has problems in the mix. The gift/skill of doing that, while valuable, is just that- valuable work, and something that you pay for in a mixing engineer. But if you want respect from the nice engineers, create tracks that don't require fixing. If the tracks have problems, track them again, until they don't.-Good Luck.-Richie
 
Yes, Dave, learn to cook. When you're poor, and old, and fat, and bald, it'll still work! As my daddy once said, the secret to getting women is not wasting your time chasing after ones that aren't interested in you. And- if you don't know if they are interested, they're not. I would add- just cook for them.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Yes, Dave, learn to cook. When you're poor, and old, and fat, and bald, it'll still work! As my daddy once said, the secret to getting women is not wasting your time chasing after ones that aren't interested in you. And- if you don't know if they are interested, they're not. I would add- just cook for them.-Richie
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One hand in the bush is worth two in the oven.
 
I'm tellin' you Tex- the one leads to the other, every time. The other cool thing I learned from an old girlfriend who's a Phd. psychologist.- If you want a woman to trust you, after you've cooked for her, feed her with a spoon. She'll think it's romantic, but in reality, it takes her back to that high chair, when she, the ignorant little sucker, learned to trust that nice lady with the spoon and swallow *whatever* she was given. Works every time.
If you can get a woman to the point where you're spoon-feeding her, you will get laid. Just make sure she's old enough to manage the spoon herself, if she has to, and young enough that she can still remember how.-Richie
 
Go to a studio and get an internship.

People don't typically learn to fly by hopping in and start playing with stuff. You could..I suppose if your rich enough to waste money on crashed planes and lawsuits from killing people during your learning process. Without guidance you can often go in the wrong direction, not know it and making music like [::not allowed to say his name::] comic guy! Internships are IMO the most efficient way to learn and cheapest as well. If your good...you move up and if your good you will never pay for the SSL or Neve yourself. You'll build relationships with great people and have a great time if you attitude is right. YMMV

SoMm
 
needmyownstudio said:
... they can do a few things for me, such as:

1. make them sound "like they should", i.e. fix them up as good as you can using like noise reduction, eq, compressor, whatever the situation calls for.

2. explain to me what it is exactly that you did. once i get a general idea i can begin to experiment and learn how the differences between my original version and your "hooked up" version.
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Hey - for my normal hourly rate, I'll definitely hook you up....

.....BUT....

...be prepared - the final answer may very well be, you shouldn't have recorded it that way in the first place!
 
To everyone telling me experience is the best teacher: I understand this. I have been slowly learning through trail and error about home recording for the past 4 years. I have been teaching myself for years. Throughout the process of doing this I have become a better musical artist and thus I have really began to stress more into getting my music onto a quality recording. To answer those who asked what kind of gear I am currently working with, it is very minimal. My setup is a Sony F - V620 microphone, hooked directly into an SB Audigy A000 soundcard. I do have plans to pick up a new mic, pre amp, makeshift vocal booth, some moniters (right now i have the computer hooked up to a basic surround sound home stereo system), and probably even a new soundcard. I realize the goal is getting a better sound recorded rather than altering a bad sound, i know this. But I refuse to sit around and not create anything because I dont yet have the money for new equiptment.


I came up with what i thought was the best possible learning tool for myself, i.e. this post along with all of your help. But many had a problem with me asking for help (free work). I understand your point of views, im just asking that you understand mine. I have recorded and mixed id say over a good 500 songs on this little computer set up. I have never had any instructors on the subject. I have the desire to learn, and poor equiptment. If anyone can come up with a helpfull way that they feel would allow me to gain me experience as well as know how please feel free to put your two cents in.

To everyone that took the time to respond id like to extend a thank you.

Richard Monroe you were especially helpfull, and son of mixerman. I was not aware studios would allow you to do internships if you werent a student of any local schools. I will definitely look into seeing if this is a possible option though.
 
What Tex said- I believe that if you posted a magnum Opus tracked by Al Scmitt of Yo Yo Ma, there's somebody here who would find *something* wrong with it.-Richie
 
>> now my problem is i dont want to get all this new equiptment and not know how to work it >>

You didn't know how to ride a bike before you got on one, did you ?

And I'll bet you didn't know that pussy tasted like that either ?

Get the new equipment, read the manuals , study any signal path block diagrams, play with the equipment.
Just do it !

Cheers
 
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