Will a mix done at low volume & sounding good be so when played loud ?

grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
The general consensus I've picked up from a variety of sources from a cast of hundreds is that when mixing, a mix done at low volume that sounds good will sound good when played louder. Has anyone ever found that not to be so ? That a mix done at low volume but sounding good actually sounded awful when played loudly ? What volumes do people prefer to mix at and why ?
I'm curious.
 
grimtraveller said:
The general consensus I've picked up from a variety of sources from a cast of hundreds is that when mixing, a mix done at low volume that sounds good will sound good when played louder. Has anyone ever found that not to be so ? That a mix done at low volume but sounding good actually sounded awful when played loudly ? What volumes do people prefer to mix at and why ?
I'm curious.
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It's certainly possible, but it's hardly guaranteed. Here's why:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher–Munson_curves

Perceived low end changes drastically as volume changes, so the relative balance of high-frequency and low-frequency instruments (as well as the audibility of low-frequency problems) changes as you change playback volume. If you get lucky, then a low-volume mix will translate well - if not, then low end issues might pop up as the volume increases.

As I understand, 80db or so is considered optimal, since that's about the flattest point on the curve.

EDIT - this may help:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

80db isn't THAT loud - it's probably about what most people (not coincidentally I'm sure) would consider a "comfortable" listening volume.
 
grimtraveller said:
The general consensus I've picked up from a variety of sources from a cast of hundreds is that when mixing, a mix done at low volume that sounds good will sound good when played louder.
Click to expand...
There's no guarantee either way, there's way too many other variables involved to be able to make a straightforward equation like that.

I personally mix at all different volumes, depending on exactly what I am working on within the mix at the time. My hand is on the CR volume almost as much as it's on any other control knob.

I try not to go too loud (>=85 dBSPL) for any longer than I have to, as I prefer to try and save my hearing for the next project instead of making this project my last one because I've shot my hearing. But other than that caveat, my mix volume can range anywhere from 35 dBSPL to (momentarily) 95 dBSPL, with the median probably somewhere in the 60-75 dBSPL range.

EDIT: Click here for more on monitor volume levels and the misunderstandings surrounding "Fletcher-Munson".

G.
 
i don't mix loud....i don't live in the environment to make that possible any more, but my mixes have improved rather than deteriorated due to this....Id rather track loud...dunno why but it helps me get in the mood of what Im doing
 
I think it may be a good check of the mix just like cranking it up for a few seconds. If you think your close and then turn down to low volume and you can no longer really hear the vocal but the rest of the mix is clear then probably vox levels are too low, if you crank it and it falls appart and all you hear is bass then you need to tweak
However I think as others have stated because of the way we perceive sound it may not be the way to go all the time

But then again if you do it all the time and you are used to the levels and make the necessary adjustments without thinking about it and get great mixes maybe it is the way to go

So my answer is yes or no
 
Generally things sound better louder. It's often easier to hear details turned up.
So I'd turn it around. It seems to me that it is more important to have the mix work and survive at very low volume , then the loud check to see if anything's pushed too far out, or come off harsh or obnoxious sounding.
 
Interesting... a mix done solely at low levels may neglect the realization of certain things in the noise floor.

But what I've taken from this is to vary volume while mixing... good comments. Will apply.
 
mixsit said:
Generally things sound better louder.
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^^ This is true. But there is a danger in that, because you can be fooled into thinking that a mix is better than it actually is. You play it loud and go 'wow'. Later, you play it soft, and go "what is this rubbish?"

So wisdom suggests listening at a variety of levels is a sensible thing to do.
 
Good points all around so far....


I think some of it also depends on the music at hand.

Like...if you are mixing a Rock recording with intense and high-volume playing...it's going to feel lame trying to mix it at too low a mixing level.
You almost have to push it up a couple of notches.

Likewise, a gentle acoustic piece with tender vocals will feel strange trying to mix it too loud.

So the music will dictate some adjustment to whatever is your typical "center point" dB SPL level is.

I tend to float from 75dB to 80dB SPL for most mixing...sometimes going lower just to hear if any elements completely disappear, and then also louder to hear if anything starts to stick out annoyingly...since we never know what levels listeners are going to choose.
 
:laughings:.....WHAT? .....SPEAK UP...........VOLUME? ..........YEAH AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE....WHY? .....:laughings:






DAM........................ at first I thought he said Valium.
:cool:
 
mixsit said:
Generally things sound better louder. It's often easier to hear details turned up.
So I'd turn it around. It seems to me that it is more important to have the mix work and survive at very low volume , then the loud check to see if anything's pushed too far out, or come off harsh or obnoxious sounding.
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This raises an interesting question.

Usually, when we discuss mixing environment, we say to mix with whatever will sound the best under the assumption that when we port to a worse system, it will still sound decent. (i.e. A mix that sounds good in a treated room with quality monitors will generally sound good in car stereo, but the inverse is not true.)

Assuming that you only mix at one level and don't follow Glen's advice: Wouldn't that imply that you want to mix at a louder volume, so that your mix sounds better when ported to a lower volume?
 
the way i look at it, which is probably wrong, is the lower volumes start to take the room out of the equation...when you add that to the fact that louder volumes make lows and highs more audible when they can be almost non existant at low volumes means that it seems sensible to mix at lower volumes...not near silent...but lower ;)
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Assuming that you only mix at one level and don't follow Glen's advice: Wouldn't that imply that you want to mix at a louder volume, so that your mix sounds better when ported to a lower volume?
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Not necessarily. Mixes sometimes sound better because they are played loud . . . there is a psycho-acoustic effect in action here. When you play them soft, this effect disappears. You then hear them with the veil lifted off your eyes (or, rather, ears).
 
I track, mix and playback music as loud as I think I can get away with (in terms of neighbors and family and whatnot) all the time. I don't ever remember wanting to hear any music that I liked quieter.

Occasionally I will turn it down out of curiosity, and it bascially sounds the same, only quieter...where's the fun in that?
 
VomitHatSteve said:
This raises an interesting question.

Usually, when we discuss mixing environment, we say to mix with whatever will sound the best under the assumption that when we port to a worse system, it will still sound decent. (i.e. A mix that sounds good in a treated room with quality monitors will generally sound good in car stereo, but the inverse is not true.)

Assuming that you only mix at one level and don't follow Glen's advice: Wouldn't that imply that you want to mix at a louder volume, so that your mix sounds better when ported to a lower volume?
Click to expand...

We want as neutral monitoring environment as we can get, but to my thinking that's just to eliminate or minimize as many variables as we can. Not sure how you're connecting that to the monitoring volume, or for why it would port over to lower play back.
I would like to follow your reasoning there though.

Also to add, one of the things I believe you get in a low volume mix/playback is simulation of poorer listening conditions, noisy masking situations and such. You get to see what elements fall away first. Sorta similar to that 'listen from the other room ploy. :)
 
heatmiser said:
I track, mix and playback music as loud as I think I can get away with (in terms of neighbors and family and whatnot) all the time. I don't ever remember wanting to hear any music that I liked quieter.

Occasionally I will turn it down out of curiosity, and it bascially sounds the same, only quieter...where's the fun in that?
Click to expand...

Contrast? :D

I don know, great songs connect! even on a crappy little radio speaker. ;)
 
mixsit said:
I don know, great songs connect! even on a crappy little radio speaker. ;)
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I agree, 100%. I just never choose to listen to a great song on a crappy little speaker :D.

You make a good point in the other post about it being similar to the "listen from the other room" trick, which I do all the time. So not that much different I guess, I just have it cranked when I do that. ;)
 
The idea behind selecting mix monitor volumes for most is not to enjoy the music or to get into any kind of mood, but rather to pick the volume that best lets one do the immediate task at hand - i.e. the right tool for the right job.

Lower monitor volumes let one hear the mix and overall balance as a whole from "outside" the mix, whereas higher volumes tend to let one "drill down" into the finer detail. For me, anyway, sticking to one volume would be like deciding to carry only a screwdriver in my tool belt and skipping the wrench and hammer.

Additionally, the more you keep the volume at one level - loud or soft - the quicker ear fatigue sets in. Changing things up not only keeps the ears fresher, but increases the likelihood that one will notice something they might not have noticed otherwise.

That said, everybody has their own preferences, and there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat in this business. We have five engineers at our studio, all five are very good, yet all five have quite different ways of doing things. And we all want to listen at different volumes at any given time ;).

G.
 
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