Why can’t I replicate the sound of commercial recordings?

Yeah I finally see the error of my ways

Next Club gig my favorite punk band has booked, I'll make sure to educate the sound man.
Dood! Put away those well worn 58s! I'll let you borrow my 414s, I'll rent a set of U87s and I'll bring any other condensers I have.
We gotta have good sound.
:D
 
RFR said:
Yeah I finally see the error of my ways

Next Club gig my favorite punk band has booked, I'll make sure to educate the sound man.
Dood! Put away those well worn 58s! I'll let you borrow my 414s, I'll rent a set of U87s and I'll bring any other condensers I have.
We gotta have good sound.
:D
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Haha! Right!
 
miroslav said:
RFR's comment is being taken to mean you would "never" use condensers in live situations...
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No. It was taken to mean that condensers pick up more bleed than dynamics with similar polar response and that's just false. I think we've pretty well outlined the real reasons we don't see many condensers on stage, but that is not a good one.

Edit - Though I'm afraid a lot of "professional" soundpeople labor under that old superstition.
 
ashcat_lt said:
No. It was taken to mean that condensers pick up more bleed than dynamics with similar polar response and that's just false. I think we've pretty well outlined the real reasons we don't see many condensers on stage, but that is not a good one.

Edit - Though I'm afraid a lot of "professional" soundpeople labor under that old superstition.
Click to expand...

:facepalm: :D

OK...since you're looking for split hairs...I'll reword my comment.

RFR's comment is being taken to mean you would "never" use condensers in live situations, because of bleed...

:p

Whatever his reason for saying it, I was simply pointing out that RFR never said "never". ;)
 
I think most of it is that everybody got bored with the actual OP and decided to go off on a tangent. At least, that's where I was after my initial reply.
 
Thread certaimly has legs. How long will it run? Who knows.

But that one sentence taken out of context from my post, and the one liner response of it being 'nonsense' was just stupid.
:D
 
Sure. Course, in context your point seemed to be that condensers are somehow more susceptible to bleed just by being condensers. That IS nonsense. It's also kind of a trigger for me lately.
 
If the cocncept of bleed is a trigger for you, what can I say...... I'm sorry. That's some serious 1st world problems you got going on. :)
 
I know my problems and I manage them. The fallacy that condensers pick up more bleed - often in the context of somehow accentuating the problems in a room - is very frustrating and I wish it would go away.
 
ashcat_lt said:
I know my problems and I manage them. The fallacy that condensers pick up more bleed - often in the context of somehow accentuating the problems in a room - is very frustrating and I wish it would go away.
Click to expand...

Ok cool.
But lets say this. And I'm being serious no joking. I've used forever a pair of old teac pencil condensers for overheads on drums.
They pick up the whole kit. Period. Thats bleed. Ive been able to reduce but not eliminate it. Personally I've come to accept and work with it.
I've recorded a lot of bands live in studio including my own band, and having a bunch of condensers in use does contribute to bleed. In absence of complete isolation there's always a little something in that channel. When close micing with dynamics in the same setting bleed is nonexistent.
So you're saying the same is possible with condensers? How?

Edit: Ps, not trying to trigger
 
Yeah, let's not trigger anything.

I love condensers for drum overheads, acoustic guitars and occasional tambourine or triangle. :)

But man, when they are solo'd, I can hear the neighbor opening her garage door or my dog going out the door to his kennel upstairs. SM7b with huge gain does not do that. So how is that that the sensitivity/bleed is the same between condensers and dynamics?

I find that condensers have much more sensitivity to input further away than dynamic mics do. How that science works would be nice to find a link to info about why that happens.

Not like I really give a shit, because I use what works in any given situation for 'me'. That is just 'me'. But I am interested in knowing why and how.


Cheers!
 
jimmys69 said:
Yeah, let's not trigger anything.


Cheers!
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But shit, jimmy. Now I'm' triggered. Maybe even being gaslighted. Lol :D :D Like I'm insane for suggesting condensers give more bleed.

Hell I got one old C414 that can pick up the mars landing. :D
 
RFR said:
But shit, jimmy. Now I'm' triggered. Maybe even being gaslighted. Lol :D :D Like I'm insane for suggesting condensers give more bleed.

Hell I got one old C414 that can pick up the mars landing. :D
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Ha! Yeah man, I get it.

Can you please post a sample of the mars landing? It is hard for us to grasp what you are hearing without a sample....

LMAO!
 
jimmys69 said:
Ha! Yeah man, I get it.

Can you please post a sample of the mars landing? It is hard for us to grasp what you are hearing without a sample....

LMAO!
Click to expand...
I'd love to, but sadly I recorded to tape. And just like the Apollo missions, I accidentally recorded over the tapes. All the data is gone. Lol:D
 
ashcat_lt said:
The fallacy that condensers pick up more bleed - often in the context of somehow accentuating the problems in a room - is very frustrating and I wish it would go away.
Click to expand...

But see...now you're making a blanket statement. :)
I think the best answer is , it depends...on the mic, the frequency response and polar pattern how well it will deal with feedback and bleed issues in a live environment.

Here's a bit from a mic manufacture that actually DOES build condensers that are useable in a live environment...and stating that the problems of feedback and bleed are a consideration, and you have to choose the right condenser mics for live use to avoid that.
So yeah, there are ones that will work fine without any problems, but it's not a fallacy to suggest that it can be a problem.

Why use condenser mics for live performance? — Ear Trumpet Labs
"As for feedback and bleed, it’s all a matter of what the specific microphone is designed for, and how well it is implemented."

Again, for me, it's more about not wanting to risk a decent condenser in a live club/bar environment, but I've used them in live choir settings, and certainly have seen them used often for orchestral live purposes.
 
RFR said:
So you're saying the same is possible with condensers? How?
Click to expand...
Make sure they have the same polar response (cardioid vs cardioid) and put them in the same place and then match the levels. It's possible that the added noise in the dynamic signal will mask some of the lower level bleed/room tone, but that's not the same as not picking it up.

I actually just tested this a few days ago even though I know it's true and didn't expect to convince anybody. Condenser vs dynamic vs ribbon as close as possible to the same position on one source just to see which one caught more room noise and or reflections. The difference between the condenser and dynamic was self/preamp noise. I could hear more of the low rumble noise in my room on the condenser, but only because it wasn't masked so much by the other noise in the signal. The ribbon, being figure-8 was noticeably different, but actually with the relatively close placements I used, much of the difference there was masked by other noise also.
 
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