when to normalize?

K

Knivez

New member
i have never done it and i hear it takes away dynamics. When should one actually do it? during the mastering phase to increase gain?
ive always been into compression much more but i have never fully understood the real use of normalizing your clips. what does it really do for your mix that compression wouldnt? thank you in advance :)
 
Normalising doesn't remove any dynamics. The relationship between the loudest and softest bits in your tracks stays exactly the same after normalisation--all it does is move the loudest bit to the level you have pre-determined with everything else changing by the same amount.

It's compression that can mess with your dynamics.

As such, normalising is simply a way of moving the overall level of the whole track a bit. It doesn't actually change your mix but it can make the mixing process easier by putting the levels in a convenient range.

However, there's a potential drawback of normalising if your DAW is stuck with integer operations rather than the superior floating point.

If you had an integer file - let's say a 16-bit one - and decided to reduce the amplitude of it by 36dB in your session, the session would ask you whether you wanted to save the file. If you said yes, then you'd have a 16-bit file with a maximum possible amplitude (and therefore signal to noise ratio) of 60dB (you can have up to 96dB of dynamic range in a 16-bit file). But, that amplitude, having been reduced by your DAW, will result in your signal not using up any more than 10 of the 16 bits available.

The trouble comes when you re-open the session and decide that you want that file back at its original amplitude. You've now got a rough-sounding 10-bit file masquerading as a 16-bit one...

Okay, that's quite an extreme example, but the basic situation is the same with all integer files. It's less of a problem with 24-bit ones, because you have a lot more bits to play with, and even if it reduced to 16 bits it would sound fine. The real issues with integer files from this point of view is what the reduced bit depth does to quiet things like ambient sounds, and natural reverberation - it screws those up a treat. The absolute joy of the Floating Point system is that all the actual signal data remains intact (although in a normalised form). It's just the scaling that is altered - so reducing the amplitude, saving, and then increasing it again results in a file that is identical to the original; no losses at all, as the bit depth has now become insignificant.

So, with integer operations, there are theoretical downsides to normalising and saving a file (though, as I say, at 24 bit depth it's not really an issue) but, as long as your DAW supports 32 bit floating point working, then normalising is 100% lossless and 100% reversible.
 
Normalising is simply applying a specified level of gain to an entire file--it can either be positive (to raise all levels by that amount) or negative (to lower levels). In most DAWs it is done by simple specifying the level you want the highest peak of your file to be (say -10dBFS) then the DAW applies the appropriate amount of gain to the whole file.

Exactly how you do it will depend on your DAW but it'll likely be in a menu somewhere with other amplitude-based effects.
 
In Reaper, you right-click on the track(s), select item processing form the menu, then select normalize. I use it when a track is much lower than the rest of the tracks, just ot make mixing easier, otherwise everything id down at the bottom of the sliders.
 
The trim knob also works well for this. Be aware that normalizing a track may cause individual plugs on the inserts to clip - be on the lookout.
 
What is the philosophical objection to normalisation that so many on this forum have? It's just a gain tool like any other. If it can get the levels of a file into a more convenient range for working/mixing, then why not use it (subject to my comments above about lowering a file by too much on a DAW using integer processing--but I've had use of floating point operations for more than a decade).

All the normal caveats about working with suitable levels apply of course--but not "good practice"? That's incorrect.
 
Bobbsy said:
What is the philosophical objection to normalisation that so many on this forum have? It's just a gain tool like any other. If it can get the levels of a file into a more convenient range for working/mixing, then why not use it (subject to my comments above about lowering a file by too much on a DAW using integer processing--but I've had use of floating point operations for more than a decade).

All the normal caveats about working with suitable levels apply of course--but not "good practice"? That's incorrect.
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Hi Bobbsy. Trims and boosts in the editor are better options. We can agree to disagree. I think you probably understand gain staging a lot better than new folks asking about normalization.
 
There is nothing wrong with normalizing in general. Normalizing all your tracks to 0dbfs is a problem. But using the function to change the gain of something to a predetermined level isn't wrong.
 
Agree 100% Farview. Raising all your tracks to 0dBFS is stupid and counterproductive whether you use a normalise function or faders or trims or whatever other trick your DAW can do.

However, demonising Normalise misses the point. As I said, it's just a tool like all the other ones mentioned.
 
Bobbsy said:
Agree 100% Farview. Raising all your tracks to 0dBFS is stupid and counterproductive whether you use a normalise function or faders or trims or whatever other trick your DAW can do.

However, demonising Normalise misses the point. As I said, it's just a tool like all the other ones mentioned.
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Normalization - I demonize thee :-) I get your point. You can abuse the gain structure with any gain related tool in a daw.
 
hmm... very interesting...

i guess i sort of do this naturally as I'm recording the tracks, as I aim to have everything peak at around -10 to -7 dB or so. I figure this leaves me enough head room but is this a good level to have my tracks or is peaking at these levels quiet, too much? Simply curious to ur guys opinions.
 
nsterken said:
I aim to have everything peak at around -10 to -7 dB or so...... is this a good level to have my tracks
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Nothing wrong with that. Some people might give you more specific levels, but they'll be somewhere around -10db on the peak.
 
The only time I can truly normalize is when there's no one around to irritate me. ;)

I only normalize at the very end...when the editing and mixing is done, and I have my final stereo mix, I will then normalize it to a safe point just under 0 dBFS for that extra volume boost.
Before getting to that point, I will manually trim down any rude peaks in the stereo mixdown file to better level the mix out a bit without needing to use a limiter for leveling, though I do use a comp on the stereo bus of my analog mixdown chain before it goes back into the DAW as a stereo file.

I don't normalize individual tracks in the DAW....ever.
 
Bobbsy said:
What is the philosophical objection to normalisation that so many on this forum have? It's just a gain tool like any other. If it can get the levels of a file into a more convenient range for working/mixing, then why not use it...
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Well... one good reason would be a lot of times it's normalizing to a file's one peak level. Now, as long as that's exactly what you want then fine.

But consider the typical wave form and your very normal application example there 'lifting files into a more convenient range for working/mixing'. Generally you'd have some idea of a target level.. how much you want to lift it etc..
Of all the ways to adjust gain why would you pick the one that lands the whole thing based on its one stray peak?
 
mixsit said:
Of all the ways to adjust gain why would you pick the one that lands the whole thing based on its one stray peak?
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If you first take care of the peaks...you are then normalizing just for overall level...and yes, in an album mix, it's going to be relative, so just normalizing all stereo mix tracks up to near "0" might not work for the levelo balance of the entire album.

Againg...I'm only talking about normalixing a stereo mix...not individual tracks.
 
Aaah, I totally get what ur saying, mixsit. Yea, that would make normalization defenitely a tool for the final mixdown. Most mastering houses I've looked at require the mixes to be normalized to a specific level.

I also see where Bobbsy is coming from, though. Some of my tracks are sometimes a few decibals lower than I like. After I track, I usually apply a tiny bit of compression to peel the top offf of perhaps ten peaks in the track, maybe an EQ or a reverb. These are things I put into the effects line as if I recorded with them but I do so immediately AFTER the tracking and editing is complete. I then set that tracks output to a bus and record that track to another track. Then, I make the original recorded track inactive and just work with the newly created 'summed' track. I like this approach cuz it taxes my computer way less. Is this any different than bouncing, and, if so, how?

But, anyway, when I record the original track to what I call the new "Mix track", I will sometimes raise the decibal output of the entire track. With my small bit of compression, this lowers the highest peaks (only slightly, I usually stick to a ratio of 3:1 or less) and will either raise the track level with the compressor gain or the slider for the track. Wonder if I'd be beter off to normalize or not. Hmmm....
 
nsterken said:
.. I then set that tracks output to a bus and record that track to another track. Then, I make the original recorded track inactive and just work with the newly created 'summed' track. I like this approach cuz it taxes my computer way less. Is this any different than bouncing, and, if so, how?
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Sounds like a means of consolidating and then rendering to a new working track. Not sure with your app but in Sonar for example there is 'bounce to clip- consolidates and processes down to one in place of the existing clip, or 'bounce to track- consolidates to a new track. I believe though if the source clips or track is just muted' it doesn't unload processing it (could be wrong.. we have to 'Archive the old track to free it from processing.

But, anyway, when I record the original track to what I call the new "Mix track", I will sometimes raise the decibal output of the entire track. [snip...] and will either raise the track level with the compressor gain or the slider for the track. Wonder if I'd be beter off to normalize or not. Hmmm...
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Again to my way of thinking if you have a gain change target it mind there's a half dozen places or ways to do it, and peak normalize would seem to be the most haphazard way to do it. But then I also don't see the utility of the alignment to peaks as a track prep method.
What lets say we have a string of guitar overdubs ready for assembly for mixing. A few happen to have some nice sharp peaks, some others don't. How is aligning to their peaks making the track fall in to your new better leveled' nominal read to mix state?
 
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