Too many harmony parts

toddfugere

New member
Anyone have any good harmony/background vox tips or ideas?

I'm working on some alternative rock and acoustic type songs for an upcoming release. All my parts are recorded already, so this is more of a mixing question. Almost all of my songs have a main vocal part and two harmony parts (one higher and one lower). Typically, main vocal is center and I will pan the harmony parts a little bit L-R and bring them down a bit below the main vocal line. I also sometimes double the main vocal during choruses and have some random oohs and aahs sprinkled throughout.

But at this point, almost every vocal part has a harmony part (Verse, chorus, bridge, etc.) throughout the entire song. I feel like it may be too much. I'm a little concerned that it will get tiring or boring to the listener. So then I thought maybe mute some and have harmony parts only during chorus, 2nd verse etc. Just not sure what the best rule of thumb is for mixing harmonies with the most impact. Is too many harmonies a bad thing?

Any ideas or suggestions on how to include 3 part harmony in my songs, but using it sparingly so there is impact and the listener doesn't get bored.
 
All my parts are recorded already, so this is more of a mixing question.
Well, at this point it's an editing question isn't it? You need to decide what to cut and what to keep. Then you can mix it. It's actually a writing/arrangement question, but you kicked that can down the road. One wonders why you recorded all of these things. Was it just by rote? Did you think about how it was actually serving the production? If you'd had a stronger and clearer vision at the start, you wouldn't be second-guessing yourself now.

I know that doesn't help but I really can't give you any advice here because I'm not listening to what you've got. If I was, I certainly wouldn't follow any rules. I'd just listen and decide and do.

I will throw one little trick that might be worth a try. Sometimes it can be fun to obscure the harmonies behind heavy effects rather than cut them out altogether. Could be as simple as muting the dry tracks out of the mix while leaving their reverb sends active. Or you can get a little weird with distortion and some filters and almost make it into another instrument. Course in DAW we can actually turn it into another instrument by using the track to generate MIDI notes...
 
I know there's a huge value in planning the arrangement and structure in advance but I tend to do what you've done, on purpose.

Of course if a group have a solid and well known arrangement then I'll record that and be done but if there's any ambiguity I tend to record everything I might need,
then work out what I actually need/want later.

Probably not a popular approach but It's just something I've settled into.

I tend to use harmony lines and bvox for movement/difference, where there's repetition, to keep the song interesting.
So if, for example, if three are three choruses in the song which are largely the same, I might use no bvox in the first, some in the second, and all in the last.
Same with verses; Maybe I introduce a single harmony part with/half way through a first verse but, then, maybe the next verse has more going on.

Quite often it ends up with less is more, maybe I have a whole part recorded for a verse but, in the end, only use one small part of that to highlight a certain line, or whatever.

As I say, I doubt that's a common approach but where there's any uncertainty I like having all the options then 'painting' them in afterwards.

Any ideas or suggestions on how to include 3 part harmony in my songs, but using it sparingly so there is impact and the listener doesn't get bored.

Gradual introduction. If you reveal all the recorded parts right from the start then the listener probably will get bored.
Revealing melodies and voices bit by bit keeps that movement and interest up.
 
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I appreciate that advice "stronger clearer vision at the start." Never really considered that. Basically, I built a house without a blueprint and wonder why it's f'd up. The other mistake I always make is recording more than what I need and cutting later, but then I completely struggle and second guess what needs to be cut later. Not to mention, I waste a lot of time recording parts I do not need (plus editing). Thank you.
 
It is not a bad thing to record more than you need. The fun part comes when you pare it down and get a better song out of it.

I was going to give you my thoughts on arrangement, but Steeno said everything I was going to, so... yeah, I second what he said. :D

Start out small and let the song build as it goes.
 
Thanks. Yeah, I like this advice a lot "Gradual introduction. If you reveal all the record parts right from the start then the listener probably will get bored. Revealing melodies and voices bit by bit keeps that movement and interest up."
 
Gradual introduction is a good and standard technique.

Another possibility is to examine the musical story: what do the music and lyrics tell you? Are there moments of drama which would benefit from many voices? Are there more reflective moments that would benefit from fewer, if just one, voices?

Are there particular words or phrases that are key and could be emphasized with harmonies, while the words around them remain solo-voiced?

Is there a particular point in the song where it all gets too much and you need to give the listener a break by emptying everything out?
 
I record a lot of clients that want to fill everything up with harmonies, my advice is that you put harmonies where you want the song to lift, usually the chorus. However don't just go to this plan, I recently recorded a song when we had some scattered harmonies in the verses and none in the chorus.

Another thing to consider is that don't get stuck in the high low harmony thing, for example sometimes you could have 2 high harmonies, one on the 3rd and one on the 5th above the 3rd, this depends on where the main vocal range is. Even try 2 vocals singing the 3rd above in unison (double track the 3rd).

But remember sometimes less is more.

Alan.
 
It's all about arrangement as folks have already said. I certainly believe in the gradual introduction, but that is merely one technique to maintain interest.
My method is to harmonise as much of the song as possible in the tracking stage.
I generally later (when mixing) find that some of the harmonies simply don't work well enough (purely subective).
Then, I may harmonise lines two and four of verse two. Part of the chorus.
But on Verse three, I might harmonise different lines, and all of the chorus.

And then there is the swell method. You gradually increase the presence of harmonies as in the gradual method, but on the final verse or final lines, strip right back to just the lead vocal.

Basically, do what sounds right to you, because there is no right or wrong.
 
Look at an 'every other line' thing for harmonies - 1st line no harmonies, 2nd line with harmonies. This can work well with both verses and choruses - but dot' do it with both all the time in a song. A lot depends on the focus of the lyric and singer. Sometimes a chorus with harmonies on all lines except the 'hook' final line works well. If I'm not sure about the final arrangement when I'm tracking vocals (which I often do before recording leads or extra background instruments), I will record multiple harmony parts - sometimes more than one take of each one. Then if I choose during mixing I can have a giant chorus effect - or not.
 
Thanks, lots of great advice. I made some changes yesterday, still need to do lots of tweaking. But the one thing i noticed is when I remove some of the excessive harmonies on parts things start to feel more focused or "intimate" if that makes sense. I appreciate the help and great ideas.
 
Excessive harmonies can merge together and produce the bedrock of the song. Think Carpenters here - where there could easily be 20 vocal tracks all working brilliantly, or you could have a really nice song with just one or two, only in the chorus. The song and the singer are the critical things. No rules.
 
I would say too much if its true harmonies. That can get old. Now doubling on the other hand, if not terribly obvious, and for the right type of song can be done beginning to end. In the mix this can be just to thicken the vox, smooth out rough spots, or for effect.
 
My music is soundscapes and ambient.I usually start out with very little and as the tracks progress on, i add more harmonies. That way the song is building with more bells and whistles.The voice to my songs is not MY voice,the voice is my Naflute( native American Flute).Also some times less is better.
 
That's nice. Maybe try lowering the levels on the the backing vocals and add some sort of spacial effect on them. Will give the voices a more breathy sound. Experiment, so many options. Good work
 
Sometimes the leading voice NEEDS to be two voices (or more!)but not in a traditional Harmony like you'd find in the chorus after the verse or a refrain after the chorus. It's here that the subtlety of the mix can bring a special harmonic content to the leading voice in a way that gives it power and an identifiable timbre. MOST pop vocals are more than one voice and not just doubles or more. The harmonic content of the pitch of the song is brought out in a way that makes it the hook sound of the voice itself. You know instantly who is singing.

Never be afraid to record everything that comes to mind when composing your music. Also. NEVER be afraid to red pencil everything that just doesn't cut it at the mix. I produce and as such I usually am adding something instrumentally to things but I also have ZERO problem taking out mine or any tracks that in the end do not serve the song.

Like my mentor says....It's never wrong to do the work. It's never a waste of time to hunt for the right moment for the song.
 
I think that depends on the particular song.
Also, automation is your friend.
For example, in the verses maybe the main vocals dryer that in the choruses, harmonies lower and panned close to center an in the choruses panned far right and left, more delay and reberb, etc.
 
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