Sync time between plugs and DAW

andrushkiwt

Well-known member
Not the best title, sorry, but I'm having an issue with something that hasn't come up yet. here goes:

I purchased an autofilter plugin (waves metafilter) and I'm encountering an issue with it. First, I should explain that the autofilter uses time sequences (1/4, 1/16 etc) to deploy its effects. For example, a "stutter" effect can be issued on a guitar channel. This gives it the in and out sound, almost techno-like, as the sounds rapidly (or however long you've set the mechanism) bob in and out, thus the preset name "stutter".

The problem is that if I put this same plugin AND preset (stutter) onto a second channel, the timing of the two channels aren't lining up properly. In theory, if it's the same plugin and setting, then I should hear the effect exactly the same on both channels and it would only appear that it's one loud channel (if not a true double take). But that's not happening. The second channel is out of time with the first. So, the stutter effect is no longer in perfect 1/4 timing. One channel might be, but the other is milliseconds behind it. Same plugin, same preset, same settings. It should be exactly the same time-wise on both sides, but it's clearly not in sync. If I disengage one side and then quickly turn it back on (the plugin, I mean), the timing is now slightly different. I keep flipping one of the plugins on and off, but I can't get it timed right so they are both in perfect sync.

The reason I need two channels, by the way, is because one will be playing a different lick. So they both need to be not only in 1/4 time for fx, but also synced to the DAW's clock. They don't seem to be doing that. I can test it by running the click track, but only one channel syncs to it properly... the other is slightly off.

Why would a plugin fx channel be out of sync with the DAW's time clock?

Screenshot (14).png

The above pic was taken when the track was stopped. You can't see it, but that meter on the bottom of the plug (1-16) is actually ticking away. It's moving 1-16 according to the rate I have selected. What that tells me is that it's set to its OWN internal time keeper. Everything is identical to the other channel (which follows the daw's clock perfectly) and all options are set to "sync".

Why isn't it moving in time with the DAW? It's milliseconds behind it. The first channel does it perfectly. I doubt a single channel more is causing lag. The system and buffers are just fine. No issues there. But I don't understand why it moves on its own time path, separate from the DAW. That makes no sense. If you want an effect in 1/4 timing, it's also very important to have it in 1/4 timing according to the DAW! Otherwise, it's in its own world!
 
I think you're assuming it's a DAW clock issue.

Not really clear how or to what you are applying it...when you say "second channel"...etc....but it may be that one plugin instance is grabbing the original audio and the second instance has to grab it in turn.
Why don't you just apply it to the "different lick" and see how they sound in the two channels, instead of applying it twice to the same piece of audio for testing purpose...?
You might not have that problem then.

Keep in mind, that when you copy a piece of audio to multiple tracks, it's not really multiplying the audio file...so all those tracks are pulling from the same audio file.
So I'm thinking it's something to do with the cyclical nature of the stutter effect, and how two instances may not be able to grab the same sample identically to create that particular effect, identically on two channels...?

The other option is to apply the effect...bounce/freeze it on the one track...then do the second one and see how they line up. I would certainly do that anyway to see what you get on the two tracks, because real-time processing might be different from summed processing later on....if it's that critical that they be in sync. IOW....what you hear in real-time, even if "perfect" may shift a bit after mixdown.
TBH...you may find that being slightly off may sound/work better anyway, rather than identical effects on two channels...but without hearing it.............
 
Sorry, I'll explain more clearly.

One audio track is Guitar FX L and another audio track is Guitar FX R. Both channels have the same plugin, though different instances of it. But it's the same plugin, waves metafilter, applied individually to each channel. Then I selected the same preset for each (stutter). The left track is bobbing in and out in perfect 1/4 timing along with the DAW's click. Then I mute that track. I listen to the bobbing of the right track (that has the same preset loaded), and it's slightly behind the DAW.

The two tracks and plugins are not interacting with each other in any way other than being routed (post, then) to the guitar bus. The right track's fx should move in the same timing as the left's. There shouldn't be any difference. And to set it straight again, there ARE in 1/4 timing, just not with each other or the DAW.

That make sense?
 
channel"...etc....but it may be that one plugin instance is grabbing the original audio and the second instance has to grab it in turn.
Why don't you just apply it to the "different lick" and see how they sound in the two channels, instead of applying it twice to the same piece of audio .

That's not really what's happening. It isn't the same piece of audio. It's two different tracks, or channels, and the audio is different on each. That's why I said I'll be playing something else on one side. But the timing should be set with the DAW... but it's not. One channel (track) is moving slightly out of time with the DAW while the other is in perfect time.

I'll post an example in a second.

---------- Update ----------

Suspicious looking 'swing' knob there.
That's the sort of thing that could/should be randomised. Tried turning it off?

Good catch. Yeah, I'll try that.

But...it is also engaged on the left track...but that one is always in perfect time. I'll still try it.
 
Here it is. This is ONLY the left channel.



This part is working fine. The problem is when I make a second track, insert the same plugin (but a separate instance of it), and load the same preset - it is not stuttering in time with the first track or the DAW for that matter. It's slightly off. They should both be bobbing in and out at the same exact time.
 
I still say you're assuming it's a DAW clock issue.
It's the plugin and how it's reacting in real-time.

If I take a couple of guitar licks and apply the same Tremolo effect, synced to the BPM...etc...they are not going to be in *perfect* time with each other from the two licks.

What's confusing is you say same...then you say different licks.
I guess If they are different licks, why would you expect the effects on each lick to be in perfect sync with each other...?
 
Suspicious looking 'swing' knob there.
That's the sort of thing that could/should be randomised. Tried turning it off?

That was it! Thanks! It was loaded into the preset. I don't know why the first channel didn't go out of time much with the DAW - or maybe it actually was, but was so small of a difference that I didn't catch it, and having two tracks maybe magnified what it was doing. But when I turned it off on both tracks, it worked perfectly.

You always catch these weird things. Nice! Thanks man! Thanks [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] for lending an ear and trying. Apologies for poor explanation on my part. And turned out to be something I should've caught myself if I looked closely enough. Thanks guys
 
Here's what it is supposed to sound like:



That right channel was moving in and out slightly off from the left channel. It was the swing knob. Didn't catch it.

Ok, back to work
 
OK...you sorted it out.

Question though...and again, maybe I didn't get what you were saying about same/different licks...but to me, it sounds like it's a singe track in the center with that stutter effect.
So what/where is the "different" lick...? Is there a high and low part, layered on top of each other...and you wanted that effect on them both?

I was kinda expecting a more pronounced two-track thing...with some spread, etc.

If it is two tracks layered doing a high/low thing...I wonder how it you would sound if you sent them to a sub bus, and then just applied a single instance of the plugin to the bus, rather individually....?
 
Nice! Glad to help.

I could see you getting a lot of use out of that effect. ;)
Have fun.


Good catch on the knob thing. It was a plugin issue and not the DAW clock.
When I was responding...he didn't have the screenshot in the original post...so I was just working it out on how he explained it. :)
 
OK...you sorted it out.

Question though...and again, maybe I didn't get what you were saying about same/different licks...but to me, it sounds like it's a singe track in the center with that stutter effect.
So what/where is the "different" lick...? Is there a high and low part, layered on top of each other...and you wanted that effect on them both?

The first clip is only the left guitar track at 40L. The second clip has both parts, which are panned 40L and 40R. You can hear the lead riff on the right in the second clip.

I posted the single track clip so you guys could hear the effect that was working fine - then imagine that there's another milliseconds off on the right. I didn't have it recorded at the time (The right channel), so I didn't post that one until after I tracked it with the fixed effect.
 
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