Room Resonance, Loud "C" Bass Note

JohnnyAmato

New member
Hey all, haven't been around much lately. Hope everyone's doing well.

Anyway, I'm working on the final mix of a track, it's a basic F-C-G-Am thing, and I noticed something when putting it to the speakers for the first time after getting most of the mix done on my headphones (I do this often since I mix a lot late night, always check finals on my speakers though)

Anyway, the "C" note on the bass is booming compared to the others (3rd fret, A string), literally sounds like 5db or more louder, things even rattle a little on my desk, I think. Only on that note, at lower volumes too. This wasn't happening on the phones. Obviously a room issue, right? Maybe a desk issue? So I did some tests.

Imported some similar, commercial released tracks into the session, songs that have distinct "C" notes on the bass. They didn't seem to resonate at all really. Sounded even. Test 2, took my track to the car stereo. Sounded fantastic, perfectly even bass notes. Must be a room or desk thing then, but why aren't commercial release "C" notes resonating like that in my room/desk then?

I then noticed that the C boomed a little more in context with song (not solo'd, still boomed solo'd though). Found the culprit, a doubled guitar track with light distortion has a light palm-mute part during the verse, and when on the "C" it was resonating too loud, along with the bass.

Again, in the car, no problems. Again, commercial release "C's" don't resonate badly in my room. I'm at a loss. Track needs to be done and mixed by early tomorrow, and it's basically done, 'cept for this "C" problem. Since it sounds great to my ears everywhere else, I should just leave it as is, I assume. Too afraid to clip-gain down the C's.

What do you guys think is going on? I could post some pictures of the room and desk if anyone wants to see. I could post the song in the clinic if need be also.
 
This is over my pay grade, but that's never stopped anyone before....:D

Is the the offending note actually loud? Can you pull up an EQ on the track and see what it's doing?

Do you have any multi band compression that would allow you to isolate this track, this frequency, and then add some compression.

If it's a room problem, you might start by seeing if there is ringing at the frequency that corresponds to the note. This might help: amroc - THE Room Mode Calculator

If you can identify the approximate frequency, you could try playing a test tone and walking around the room--particularly at the boundary--to look for an area that's louder than expected. Then it's a question of whether treatment will work and what kind. Going to the car to listen is a pain and a waste of gas. Plus, you are ten times more likely to get in an auto accident in your car compared to your studio. :D

Finally, and this may seem harsh if you are a bass player, can you arrange your way out of the problem by not playing the note at that point. In a rich and complicated mix, not all notes and all instruments have to play at once. In fact, sometimes the ears need for the rhythm section to shut up or just quiet down. I would argue that it improves dynamics. It's like a song where the singer sings at full blast for three minutes straight . It's not very interesting. In fact, depending on the singer, it could be extremely annoying. The same applies to bass, lead guitar, etc. And especially to the drummer. "D
 
My room resonates at the low F#. I think its just a standard room thing to have a mode.
 
Hey all, haven't been around much lately. Hope everyone's doing well.

Anyway, I'm working on the final mix of a track, it's a basic F-C-G-Am thing, and I noticed something when putting it to the speakers for the first time after getting most of the mix done on my headphones (I do this often since I mix a lot late night, always check finals on my speakers though)

Anyway, the "C" note on the bass is booming compared to the others (3rd fret, A string), literally sounds like 5db or more louder, things even rattle a little on my desk, I think. Only on that note, at lower volumes too. This wasn't happening on the phones. Obviously a room issue, right? Maybe a desk issue? So I did some tests.

Imported some similar, commercial released tracks into the session, songs that have distinct "C" notes on the bass. They didn't seem to resonate at all really. Sounded even. Test 2, took my track to the car stereo. Sounded fantastic, perfectly even bass notes. Must be a room or desk thing then, but why aren't commercial release "C" notes resonating like that in my room/desk then?

I then noticed that the C boomed a little more in context with song (not solo'd, still boomed solo'd though). Found the culprit, a doubled guitar track with light distortion has a light palm-mute part during the verse, and when on the "C" it was resonating too loud, along with the bass.

Again, in the car, no problems. Again, commercial release "C's" don't resonate badly in my room. I'm at a loss. Track needs to be done and mixed by early tomorrow, and it's basically done, 'cept for this "C" problem. Since it sounds great to my ears everywhere else, I should just leave it as is, I assume. Too afraid to clip-gain down the C's.

What do you guys think is going on? I could post some pictures of the room and desk if anyone wants to see. I could post the song in the clinic if need be also.




That is why you use cans.

It takes the room problems out of needing consideration.

If it sounds good everywhere else then declare success.
That is the goal. not to just have it sound good in one room with problems and bad everywhere else.

it
 
If it sounds good everywhere else then declare success.
That is the goal.

I agree that this is the goal. The problem comes when you mention the concept of everywhere. That's a very large number of rooms and possibilities. It's not infinite but damn close. You can listen in a car, at a friend's house, through earbuds, a laptop, and ten other places and it's impossible to know if you've even some close to sampling "everywhere."

This is why people argue for the basic foundation of a controlled room. If you start with that, you improve your odds. It's not the final answer. You can still listen in other environments and you should. But it reduces the chance that you will get something horribly wrong.
 




That is why you use cans.

It takes the room problems out of needing consideration..

it

We've had this discussion before, right. :D My argument then was a simple one: Headphones control for the room but they introduce other issues which are equally significant. I'm going to punt on repeating a list of those issues and leave it for the OP to determine. But they are real and they will mess with your head and your mix. :D
 
My room resonates at the low F#. I think its just a standard room thing to have a mode.


Yup. Rectangular rooms have modes which happen at certain frequencies. Those frequencies correspond to notes. The amount of ringing you experience is variable, though, depending on bass trapping. There is ringing and then there is ringing like an angry neighbor whole holds down your doorbell until it sounds continuous. :D That's the stuff that really meddles with your interpretation of the bass and kick when mixing.
 
We've had this discussion before, right. :D My argument then was a simple one: Headphones control for the room but they introduce other issues which are equally significant. I'm going to punt on repeating a list of those issues and leave it for the OP to determine. But they are real and they will mess with your head and your mix. :D

But the mix was fine everywhere else.

Only thing messing with my head is trying to fix a bad room when headphones eliminates the need to do that.
 
I agree that this is the goal. The problem comes when you mention the concept of everywhere. That's a very large number of rooms and possibilities. It's not infinite but damn close. You can listen in a car, at a friend's house, through earbuds, a laptop, and ten other places and it's impossible to know if you've even some close to sampling "everywhere."

This is why people argue for the basic foundation of a controlled room. If you start with that, you improve your odds. It's not the final answer. You can still listen in other environments and you should. But it reduces the chance that you will get something horribly wrong.

Lots of people say lots of things. Does not make them right.

Seems like using headphones fixes that room problem.
Nothing you can do about other rooms and their problems.

Make a good mix and let others fix their own room problems.
 
I never understood the "cans" thing. Every time I've tried this, I cut my ears. Are you using string, too? :D

New folks may not understand all the terms that older folks used.

The only string I use is to tie my wallet shut so I dont throw money away needlessly thinking that more expensive means better.
 
But the mix was fine everywhere else.
.

And by "everywhere else" you mean the Honda Civic in his driveway? He only tried the mix in his car. Nowhere else as far as I can tell. I may be wrong about the car, though. It might not be a Honda. :D
 
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Seems like using headphones fixes that room problem.

You would thinks so, right? But they also cause other problems which are significant.

I wish I could mix only on headphones. The world would be a better place. There would be no need to treat rooms or buy monitors. And there would be no recording studios and room designers. My life would be simple, although a lot of people would be unemployed. :D
 
New folks may not understand all the terms that older folks used.

The only string I use is to tie my wallet shut so I dont throw money away needlessly thinking that more expensive means better.

You can save even more money by using a money clip instead of a wallet. Wallets cost money. Too much in my opinion. Just carry a money clip with the big bills on the outside. Or inside if you live in a dodgy neighborhood. The clip will also hold your license and a credit card if you are so inclined. Personally, I think you can save even more money by not driving. But, hey, I'm a recluse.
 
You would thinks so, right? But they also cause other problems which are significant.

I wish I could mix only on headphones. The world would be a better place. There would be no need to treat rooms or buy monitors. And there would be no recording studios and room designers. My life would be simple, although a lot of people would be unemployed. :D



The only reason to treat your room is so you can listen to the stereo from speakers not headphones.
 
The only reason to treat your room is so you can listen to the stereo from speakers not headphones.

I treat my room for the cancer risk and the fire hazard. I'm dying slowly from a chronic heart condition and I'd like to choose how I go. It's all about control. :thumbs up:
 
Wait...You said you went to "Uni" during the late 50's or early 60's. That makes you a Brit, I assume. Isn't like 3AM where you are? Shouldn't you be asleep? ;)
 
I treat my room for the cancer risk and the fire hazard. I'm dying slowly from a chronic heart condition and I'd like to choose how I go. It's all about control. :thumbs up:

how do you treat a cancer risk in a room?

I use HEPA filters to remove the pm2.5 particles but not bass traps for cancer
should we do more than that ?

fire hazard?? ban smoking
get a fire extinguisher rated ABandC
 
Definitely didn't mean to start a battle. :facepalm:

Just wanted some opinions. Actually heard the song in 5 places; two different car stereos, 2 different pairs of headphones, a boombox, and my monitors. No booming "C" notes anywhere 'cept for the monitors. Again, commercial release "C" notes don't really boom on them, but they do a tiny bit.

Monitors are M-Audio BX8-D2's
Headphones are Beyer Dynamic DT-880s and 770s (primarily use the 770s just for tracking though)
Cars were Toyotas :facepalm:

Anyway, watching my eq's when the notes pass has no effect, and the peak volume meters don't rise; so it's definitely a room/table/speaker problem. Also, when I walk around the room, the "C" doesn't seem to boom anymore, its only when sitting at the desk, or very near proximity.

I'll post pictures of the studio to see if anyone has any suggestions.

Thanks for your help. :)
 
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