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Thread: Room Resonance, Loud "C" Bass Note

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAmato View Post
    Definitely didn't mean to start a battle.

    Just wanted some opinions. Actually heard the song in 5 places; two different car stereos, 2 different pairs of headphones, a boombox, and my monitors. No booming "C" notes anywhere 'cept for the monitors. Again, commercial release "C" notes don't really boom on them, but they do a tiny bit.

    Monitors are M-Audio BX8-D2's
    Headphones are Beyer Dynamic DT-880s and 770s (primarily use the 770s just for tracking though)
    Cars were Toyotas

    Anyway, watching my eq's when the notes pass has no effect, and the peak volume meters don't rise; so it's definitely a room/table/speaker problem. Also, when I walk around the room, the "C" doesn't seem to boom anymore, its only when sitting at the desk, or very near proximity.

    I'll post pictures of the studio to see if anyone has any suggestions.

    Thanks for your help.


    That is what you said earlier.

    Somebody else ASSumed you only listened in your car.

    Thanks for proving that the headphones worked for all those other places without fixing your room.

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  3. #22
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    Yea I've been mixing on heaphones for a very long time, always double-check on monitors though before I "release" anything, along with the car test, and I'm almost always using reference tracks.

    My Beyer Dynamic DT-880 are actually really nice, they are open-back, and almost make me feel like I'm listening to speakers. I used 770s for years, which are nice too, but when I upgraded to the 880s, wow, they are great. Have 3 pairs of 770s I only use for tracking.
    Pro Tools 12.7 - Superior Drummer 2.0 - Sound Forge Pro 10

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAmato View Post
    Yea I've been mixing on heaphones for a very long time, always double-check on monitors though before I "release" anything, along with the car test, and I'm almost always using reference tracks.

    My Beyer Dynamic DT-880 are actually really nice, they are open-back, and almost make me feel like I'm listening to speakers. I used 770s for years, which are nice too, but when I upgraded to the 880s, wow, they are great. Have 3 pairs of 770s I only use for tracking.
    that is a good plan

    but how do you check on monitors if the room is bad ?

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    Well, not all my recordings have that "C" note, and I've also moved the desk around a bit to accodomate room for drum kits and stage setup for the 4 different bands I play with that rehearse here. That might have something to do with it. I'm going to do to more tests to figure this out.

    I do have moving blankets and some mattress pads on all the corners and walls.
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    Using cans to check for specific single issues heard on monitors is an excellent idea and is common even among pros. They produce detail up close. Using them to put a mix together to get things arranged and generally put together is fine as well....although will never replace a good room with good monitors. I use them to sort out lots of things. If....for instance....you know your room has a certain issue with bass accuracy.......and you have a set of cans that you know well.........why not get there that way?
    Just A Song Writer..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAmato View Post
    Definitely didn't mean to start a battle.

    Just wanted some opinions. Actually heard the song in 5 places; two different car stereos, 2 different pairs of headphones, a boombox, and my monitors. No booming "C" notes anywhere 'cept for the monitors. Again, commercial release "C" notes don't really boom on them, but they do a tiny bit.

    Monitors are M-Audio BX8-D2's
    Headphones are Beyer Dynamic DT-880s and 770s (primarily use the 770s just for tracking though)
    Cars were Toyotas

    Anyway, watching my eq's when the notes pass has no effect, and the peak volume meters don't rise; so it's definitely a room/table/speaker problem. Also, when I walk around the room, the "C" doesn't seem to boom anymore, its only when sitting at the desk, or very near proximity.

    I'll post pictures of the studio to see if anyone has any suggestions.

    Thanks for your help.
    Sorry, I didn't notice the alternative listening locations. I swear you just mentioned your car. Although, damn, I was close. Back in the day, you couldn't tell the difference between Honda and Toyota.

    You should post the clip. I'll bet that it will sound great. At least based on the track you posted to the mp3 clinic.

    Is there a way to move your desk and listen. When I shot my room, there was a horrible sound build up over my work desk. Something between 150 and 300 hz if I remember correctly. I pushed the desk forward and, viola, it was gone from my ears and from the SPL Frequency Range graph.

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    With a cheap uncalibrated phone app and a sine wave sweep from your system, you can easily see what is happening. If you put a flattish condenser in the room and record the sweep, you can also see how the energy is behaving. Probably not exactly a C, but close. The peaks in the waveform should be obvious.

  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob aylestone View Post
    With a cheap uncalibrated phone app and a sine wave sweep from your system, you can easily see what is happening. If you put a flattish condenser in the room and record the sweep, you can also see how the energy is behaving. Probably not exactly a C, but close. The peaks in the waveform should be obvious.
    Either that or just use you're ears.

    Seriously, though, you might not even need a sweep. I bet if you plug your room dimensions into that room mode calculator and find the frequency for your C note, you will hear it building up near your mix position. The room mode calculator has a tone generator built in.

    Of course, the question is where do you go from there in terms of room treatment or desk movement. That may be a tough one.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAmato View Post
    Well, not all my recordings have that "C" note, and I've also moved the desk around a bit to accodomate room for drum kits and stage setup for the 4 different bands I play with that rehearse here. That might have something to do with it. I'm going to do to more tests to figure this out.

    I do have moving blankets and some mattress pads on all the corners and walls.
    Are the speakers on isolators or directly on the desk? My last set up the desk itself had a resonant frequency that turned it into a giant soundboard at certain frequencies. A couple of isolators like mopads got rid of that.

    The moving the desk a bit thing is also a good idea to try,
    Win 7 Ult Dell i7 4core 6700ghz 32 GB, 1,2x2, 4 Tb Barracuda HD's running Pro tools 2018 through Allen&Heath Qu-32

  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickster View Post
    Using cans to check for specific single issues heard on monitors is an excellent idea and is common even among pros. They produce detail up close. Using them to put a mix together to get things arranged and generally put together is fine as well....although will never replace a good room with good monitors. I use them to sort out lots of things. If....for instance....you know your room has a certain issue with bass accuracy.......and you have a set of cans that you know well.........why not get there that way?

    Yup. Nothing wrong with good headphones. I use them, too, especially for editing errors, reverb details, etc. In fact, you have to use both or you will undoubtedly miss something. The problem comes when you take an extreme position on the issue and argue that monitors and room treatment are a waste of time and unnecessary. Using just headphones can cause incorrect placement and panning decisions, as well as problems with volume between tracks. There is no center in a headphone. So every track in the center has potential volume issues. And quite often, that's where the most important stuff is positioned. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use headphones or you can't use them. It means that you should be wary of the know issues.

    It's funny that I guy named Mr. Average would attack a long-held orthodoxy among home recording enthusiasts and studio engineers.

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