Rookie's essential problems

mlac

New member
Let me state two different mindsets:

1) "If I don't hear any problem, than there IS no problem. If someone else hears the problem, that's his problem."

2) "If I don't hear any problems, I better search for someone who can hear the problem (although I hear no problem)."

So, what is the definition of a problem?
I believe, to have a problem, your "present state" should differentiate from your "desired state" and it should be obvious (available to the senses).

How about that? Your comments, experiences?
 
So, what is the definition of a problem?
I believe, to have a problem, your "present state" should differentiate from your "desired state" and it should be obvious (available to the senses).

How about that? Your comments, experiences?
A problem can be something that doesn't sound right to you or it can be something you want to do but do not know how.
Finding problems though, can be obvious to one person and not another. It can also not be obvious at one time and then obvious later. I remember once, I recorded a vocal to a song and the main instrument that I sang to was the bass guitar and it sounded good. Or so I thought. I could hear no problems with my voice. The song had 3 verses and the idea was that my friend would do a harmony vocal on verses 2 and 3. Well, when she came to do the vocal harmony, she sang it really well but as I listened to her harmonizing to my vocal, I realized I was out of tune all the way through ! Yet she couldn't hear it and she harmonized perfectly, to my out of tune vocal. When I took my vocal out, her harmony was just as it should be. Yet she harmonized to an out of tune vocal. She thought my vocal was good but the more I listened to it the more out of tune it sounded. So I wiped it and sang the melody to her harmony. And it was perfect !
Strange.
I've had pieces of music that I've had recorded for years and that always sounded OK to me then suddenly, they just don't. And I re-do them and they sound great and I can't understand why they hadn't sounded bad for so many years. Experience is a useful edge to have !
 
Let me state two different mindsets:

1) "If I don't hear any problem, than there IS no problem. If someone else hears the problem, that's his problem."

2) "If I don't hear any problems, I better search for someone who can hear the problem (although I hear no problem)."

So, what is the definition of a problem?
I believe, to have a problem, your "present state" should differentiate from your "desired state" and it should be obvious (available to the senses).

How about that? Your comments, experiences?

Proposition 1 is unhelpful. If I don't hear a problem it could well be because I don't have the skills to discern the problem. That's why proposition 2 is helpful.

Also, your brain lies to you. It tricks you into hearing what you want to hear, not what you actually hear. So when I record a vocal track, listen to it on playback, and congratulate myself on the best ever burst of singing, then come back to it a year later, I want to hide and never appear in public again, wondering how I could ever have thought it was ok.
 
I've had pieces of music that I've had recorded for years and that always sounded OK to me then suddenly, they just don't. And I re-do them and they sound great and I can't understand why they hadn't sounded bad for so many years. Experience is a useful edge to have !

Thank you for your thoughts, Grim.
I understand growing up and changing your point of view. In your example, how others have accepted your interpretation at that time?
Maybe to clarify a little: if I have recorded a simple kick which does its "job" why would I want to "decorate" it with 4 more channels of additional layers of different kicks, noise etc. unless I explicitly want the kick to sound exactly like some chosen template? I I am satisfied with it, why would anybody say: "your kick is bad" or "your kick is wrong".
Is there "exact music" with different rules than "artistic music"? I'm talking about commercial music you can hear everywhere today.
Why everything has to be shiny, sparkling, over-mixed and over-mastered?
 
Proposition 1 is unhelpful. If I don't hear a problem it could well be because I don't have the skills to discern the problem.

I agree. It is very hard to make music and at the same time wondering "what am I doing wrong?".
So, you are saying that there is set of objective (but unspoken) rules, subject to subjective assessment.
I just want to understand the range of what is and what is not acceptable (in mix). What is enough and what is exaggerated. And why?

---------- Update ----------

Guys.... troll .....

?
 
Guys.... troll .....
In what way Mike ?

In your example, how others have accepted your interpretation at that time?

Well, in the first example, my friend accepted that I could hear something that she couldn't and went along with what I thought.

if I have recorded a simple kick which does its "job" why would I want to "decorate" it with 4 more channels of additional layers of different kicks, noise etc. unless I explicitly want the kick to sound exactly like some chosen template? I I am satisfied with it, why would anybody say: "your kick is bad" or "your kick is wrong".
Is there "exact music" with different rules than "artistic music"? I'm talking about commercial music you can hear everywhere today.
I think that is a good set of questions and what it tells me is that there is a certain balance to be aimed for. My opinion of my music is what is important, not the commercial standard. I've always said that I will write what I want to write and play what I want played and mix how I see fit and that I do not follow any commercial constraint. But I also keep in mind that my ears aren't the only ears on planet earth and I try to develop the art of listening through what I imagine to be other peoples ears. Balance is important but experience in achieving that balance takes time.
 
Why everything has to be shiny, sparkling, over-mixed and over-mastered?
It doesn't.
I'm 57 and I consider myself fortunate to have been born and gotten into music at the time when the technical side was taking off. So different recording techniques, instruments, ways of mixing, different styles of writing, different mediums {computer/tape} ~ all these have left their mark and I think we as home recorders have so much choice and so much scope in what we do and how we do it. Commercially, it's the opposite. The industry sometimes can appear to throw away everything that has come before it. I prefer to incorporate it all if that's what I like.
So if I want to pan my drums hard left, I will. If I don't want to do a stereo mix, I won't. If I want my kick drum to be thick and thuddy rather than crisp and clicky, I will. If I want to record an acoustic guitar by putting the mic in front of the sound hole, I will. If I want to record a piano by just pointing the mic at the strings I will. But I'll also use up to date, standard and modern techniques. I don't want my stuff to sound too shiny and sparkly but neither do I want it to be dull and muddy. My way of putting it is that I don't want it to sound slick or slack. I want to have fun in what I do but I want it to sound what I consider to be good and what I hope others will find to be good too. But I have no control over the personal tastes of others. So I just say, learn what you can, experiment and put your music out there. It's not down to me to make people like it. There are 100s of songs that I love but I may not like a particular sound within the song. But I'm not going to reject a song I like just because I don't like the snare sound or whatever it may be.
 
In what way Mike ?

Nothing specific about MIXING or monitoring, or anything else.

First question to someone who is SPECIFIC about this type of problem
What is your set up - gear, DAW, etc.

Second question:
What specifically do you (or someone else) think is a problem with your mixes? Post an example.
 
1) "If I don't hear any problem, than there IS no problem. If someone else hears the problem, that's his problem."

I can see a problem with the attitude that "I don't hear a problem" if (and this is a very real possibility) you actually have hearing problems. 30 years ago, I used be be annoyed by the 15K flyback transformer noise from TVs. The whistle could drive me crazy. Today, it wouldn't bother me a bit, as my top end is probably down to around 12k or so. That means that i don't hear the same sparkle from things like bells, cymbals and other things with high frequencies. However, I still remember what they sound like, so if I tried to boost frequencies to get that sparkle, I'd probably fry most people's ears with the shrill highs.

The other issue of not hearing a problem if you have equipment which doesn't show a problem. If you boost the low end because you can't hear the bass on speakers which aren't well balanced, then most other people will hear overly boosted bass.

A different perspective can be valuable.
 
Nothing specific about MIXING or monitoring, or anything else.

First question to someone who is SPECIFIC about this type of problem
What is your set up - gear, DAW, etc.

Second question:
What specifically do you (or someone else) think is a problem with your mixes? Post an example.

OK, how do I post an example?
I have two recordings of a song I wrote. One of them I recorded in my home studio. The singer insisted we recorded the song in a professional studio. So, the other mix is from a professional studio ($350). They re-recorded live bass and vocal. Piano and drums are the same MIDI.
I like the one I did in my home studio more than the studio version.
I put them on Soundcloud. Can you tell which is /better/ AND why?
The Forum wouldn't let me submit the link. What do I do?
 
OK, how do I post an example?
I have two recordings of a song I wrote. One of them I recorded in my home studio. The singer insisted we recorded the song in a professional studio. So, the other mix is from a professional studio ($350). They re-recorded live bass and vocal. Piano and drums are the same MIDI.
I like the one I did in my home studio more than the studio version.
I put them on Soundcloud. Can you tell which is /better/ AND why?
The Forum wouldn't let me submit the link. What do I do?

YOu need a certain number of posts before you can link (I think it's ten).

So you can either make a few more posts, or you can post the link, but make it look not like a link (for example, by writing 'dot' instead of '.'),
and I or someone else can post the proper link for you.
 
A lot of people just remove the HTTPS:// from the start of the link and we can copy and past the Soundcloud link in our browser to get to the songs.
 
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