Question for the Mastering Engineers of the forum

LeeRosario

LeeRosario

New member
So I'm reading up online about what Sterling Sound does, their history with Ted Jensen...yada yada. No doubt they are heavy hitters.

But I did read up on them priding themselves on coming up with propriety software/hardware that's supposed to do amazing things for audio, pushing the limits and stuff like that.

Have any of you heard of this? Do you know what can of technologies they are talking about here? Is it extremely common place for the mastering engineer to be marketed mostly because of his uniquely designed tools?

I'm pretty sure in my obsession I've worked with or at least read up on most tools out there...so could there possibly be a new type of audio tech that's still being tested?

Just throwing a bone out there.
 
I don't have many "stock" pieces myself... Rephrase that - Many of the pieces I have aren't in "stock" condition... That said, a lot of my tweaks are pretty common to "tweaky mastering engineers" also --

I love my Vari-Mu - But it reacted way too hard to low end. I asked if there was a way I could put a HPF on the side chain (and they already had such a tweak ready to go). My SSL 4000E/G clone has "that SSL sound" but that's about it. It runs at unity (unlike the actual SSL 4000 comp, which I think is so amazingly stupid...), has attack times exceeding 100ms, MCI 416 transformers on the outputs, etc.

My STC8 has another "ready-to-go" tweak - It was far too reactive considering the levels we're usually working at. Found that there was a jumper setting that reduced the sensitivity of the side chain by 10dB. Now, the knobs have throw. The Ibis (EQ) was ripped apart and basically rebuilt to much higher tolerances. My API 5500 EQ is the third unit I tried. Tweaky.

A few other proprietary (for lack of a better term) chunks of stuff that's not on the market. Usually in R&D, occasionally in the racks. I have 3 or 4 units "in the works" for various duties. Some are loosely based on available products that lack something / have too much of something else, some are more or less "unique" and that's all there is to it.

When you're looking for a particular tool, if it doesn't exist, you have to either make it, or find someone who can make it for you.

I wouldn't say it's common for an engineer to be marketed for his tools - But if his tools have an impact on his sound, and that's marketable, then there you go.
 
Last edited:
Massive Master said:
I wouldn't say it's common for an engineer to be marketed for his tools - But if his tools have an impact on his sound, and that's marketable, then there you go.
Click to expand...


It think that's what the article I was reading was getting to. My interpretation on whatever happens in some of these places seems experimental I suppose. I don't doubt the ears being a part of that equipment list :D

I remember they where talking about figuring out ways of getting songs hotter, but still clean to CD down to the CD spec and actually going to the CD manufacturers themselves. Of course that was in the 80s, so I dont suppose it applies as much now with the L3itis.

They seem pretty tight lipped about their gear.

I of course support the lower "better sound" over the relentless high RMS assault of the 21st, but I gotta admit it's interesting to see how you good mastering engineers are really coming up with stuff that could potentially bring the listening experience right to the listeners face.

Do you have a particular shop for your custom hardware stuff? Or is the mod stuff all your design?
 
LeeRosario said:
They seem pretty tight lipped about their gear.
Click to expand...
IME, that can swing a couple of different ways.

Sometimes that tight-lippedness is covering some proprietary (like John said, for lack of a better word) gear or tweak. This was for tracking, not mastering, but I remember one studio - I think maybe it might have been the old Record Plant in NYC - with a live room where they forbode any photography of their ceiling because they had a custom-designed, multi-faceted "dome" where they had worked out surfaces and mic positions for special reverb/delay effects that they wanted no one to copy.

Sometime the tight-lippedness, though, is not to cover gear, but simply to keep people guessing. Sometimes when one asks the question, "what signal chain do you use?", the answer, "It's a secret" can project a lot more cachet and deflect a lot more competition than to actually give a specific answer, regardless of what that answer might be. It's kind of like trying to guess just how many workable, if any, nukes Israel actually has when the only answer they give is "We an neither confirm nor deny that we have any at all." ;)

On another point, and I think John kind of alluded to this, often times with hardware - especially the old tube stuff, but not limited to that - even if it has not been specially modded, does not sound quite the same from one bix to another. This especially plays with the mastering sector, where incremental differences are valued most. I always get a bit of a kick the way people say that this plug in sounds more like the real thing than that plug in does, and it's often true; but sometimes the difference between two pieces of hardware with the same model number on them can be enough to beg the question, "Which box are you comparing the plugins to?"

With that in mind, there are some engineers who wish to hang on to a specific unit they found because it has just that bit of an edge, and that's something they don't want to let go of, let alone get out as public knowledge. Often times you'll find people trying to find similar serial numbers trying to match gear by the day they were produced or the bin of components from which they were manufactured in the hopes of catching that magic personality twice. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Editorializing on all this, personally I find much of this chase for esoterica to be a bit more of an avocational pursuit than a practical engineering advantage, but sometimes, like getting custom fit golf clubs, it can help the engineer take a couple of strokes off his game :).

G.
 
Last edited:
Do you have a particular shop for your custom hardware stuff? Or is the mod stuff all your design?
Click to expand...
I have a few friends that are good with electronics. Because I'm not.

A lot of it really isn't complicated for the guys who know what they're doing - The HPF on the Vari-Mu was already mapped out at Manley (had I known, I would've had it installed sooner). When I need a piece of Crane Song gear to "do something" I call Dave (at Crane Song) and he tells me if it's possible and we go from there. Other times, I just say "I want this to be a thick & juicy color piece" and we experiment with different transformers until I find the one that gives me what I'm looking for.

But as Glenn eluded to, it really is a "few strokes off the game" thing. Not too many people pick a POS and try to turn it into something special - They pick something special and try to make it a little more special. But the gear is still only part of the "rig" in the first place -- I'm sure Ted's work would sound pretty similar if he were using the stock plugs in WaveLab.
 
Massive Master said:
But as Glenn eluded to, it really is a "few strokes off the game" thing. Not too many people pick a POS and try to turn it into something special - They pick something special and try to make it a little more special.
Click to expand...

Except those of us who buy Chinese mics and preamps and mod the **** out of them. :D
 
LeeRosario said:
So I'm reading up online about what Sterling Sound does, their history with Ted Jensen...yada yada. No doubt they are heavy hitters.

But I did read up on them priding themselves on coming up with propriety software/hardware that's supposed to do amazing things for audio, pushing the limits and stuff like that.
Click to expand...

They could be referring to their propriety software that lets you upload and download projects via ddp files through their web site.

5 years ago this was a bit ground breaking. Now a days it is common and easy to transfer files.

I've worked with Ted (nice guy) on a couple projects and had a chance to talk with him concerning some of his gear and approach to mastering.

Last I new he was using Nuendo as were a couple other guys there. Calbi uses Pyramix.

Sterling has a lot of custom built and modified gear in their facility as well. Each room is out fitted differently.

Ted and Greg are a couple of my favorite mastering guys and can make things sound pretty sweet at conservative levels and have been known to take things over the edge as well, but that's life.
 
Waltz Mastering said:
They could be referring to their propriety software that lets you upload and download projects via ddp files through their web site.

5 years ago this was a bit ground breaking. Now a days it is common and easy to transfer files.

I've worked with Ted (nice guy) on a couple projects and had a chance to talk with him concerning some of his gear and approach to mastering.

Last I new he was using Nuendo as were a couple other guys there. Calbi uses Pyramix.

Sterling has a lot of custom built and modified gear in their facility as well. Each room is out fitted differently.

Ted and Greg are a couple of my favorite mastering guys and can make things sound pretty sweet at conservative levels and have been known to take things over the edge as well, but that's life.
Click to expand...

Thats really cool to have that experience. I think I can appreciate the work that comes out of Sterling. Thank you for adding your insight on that. Another great angle. I wonder in what ways they specifically take things over the edge? I'd understand if it's a trade secret :D
 
I built my monitor controller. It has a stepped attentuator, individual mutes for Left and Right, and a mono switch. It is connected to the patch bay so whatever I am monitoring gets patched into it on the way to the monitors, which require an attentuator because they have no volume control and would otherwise be at full blast. Eventually, if I get the time, I am going to build a second piece that will help with mastering, which would simply be a true bypass. I would have 4 to 5 12-pole switches that would simply switch devices in and out, in order to true bypass them and compare their effects more easily. This would include the DAC stage. The final piece I plan to build is a dual m/s encode/decode box, which I think I will use low cost opamps for at first. Hope this helps !
 
FALKEN said:
I built my monitor controller. It has a stepped attentuator, individual mutes for Left and Right, and a mono switch. It is connected to the patch bay so whatever I am monitoring gets patched into it on the way to the monitors, which require an attentuator because they have no volume control and would otherwise be at full blast. Eventually, if I get the time, I am going to build a second piece that will help with mastering, which would simply be a true bypass. I would have 4 to 5 12-pole switches that would simply switch devices in and out, in order to true bypass them and compare their effects more easily. This would include the DAC stage. The final piece I plan to build is a dual m/s encode/decode box, which I think I will use low cost opamps for at first. Hope this helps !
Click to expand...

You know, I think it's always great to find out how modded pieces of gear can get. Like I remember when someone turned me on to the whole Seventh Circle Audio phenomenon about 3rd party preamps with "famous" components.

I think it's something I'm just now really getting into in terms of altering the standard nature of manufactured gear. It'd be cool to see how this whole setup sounds...I'm a great fan of specific tones and if possible, what circuts bring about that tonal character.

I'm re-reading up on transformer designs in audio equipment as we speak. :D
 
Hey Lee,

My Chandler LTD-2s have the Sterling mods. Basically just make them more mastering-friendly. Matched pair, 1dB stepped gain and different release times.
 
masteringhouse said:
Hey Lee,

My Chandler LTD-2s have the Sterling mods. Basically just make them more mastering-friendly. Matched pair, 1dB stepped gain and different release times.
Click to expand...

So it sounds like the power of some mastering processing comes in a surgical sense? I figured you would depend more on accurate release timing and the clean signal flow type setup....

Is that something they did for you? Or did you modify it yourself?
 
Hey Lee, great question, from my experience, no two engineers use exactly the same set up, and usually each specific piece of gear or plugin is used for a certain sound (obviously), but the important thing to understand is that each one of those sounds will sound more or less appropriate than another piece of gears sound based on the song it's being used on. There is no "perfect" setup that will nail it on every song, hence the wide variety of gear and plugins many mastering engineers have. So I think it's not too crucial to get wrapped up in who has what and what has been done to it unless you are only interested in one genre of music and only songs that sound a certain way within it.
 
LeeRosario said:
So it sounds like the power of some mastering processing comes in a surgical sense? I figured you would depend more on accurate release timing and the clean signal flow type setup....

Is that something they did for you? Or did you modify it yourself?
Click to expand...

Sterling created the specs for the mods but they do not perform them. In my case the mods were done at Chandler IIRC but can also be done by an experienced tech. I know that the tech at Mercenary Audio can do these.

It's better in my opinion that the original designer perform the mods for you as they know the intent of the design and its circuitry best. Some will do this, others seem reluctant because it becomes more costly for them to manufacture to different specifications.
 
Last edited:
masteringhouse said:
Sterling created the specs for the mods but they do not perform them. In my case the mods were done at Chandler IIRC but can also be done by an experienced tech. I know that the tech at Mercenary Audio can do these.

It's better in my opinion that the original designer perform the mods for you as they know the intent of the design and its circuitry best. Some will do this, others seem reluctant because it becomes more costly for them to manufacture to different specifications.
Click to expand...

Hey Tom, nice to see you again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top